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SynjoDeonecros
15th February 2016, 01:27 AM
So, I seem to be drawn to decks that don't normally use the Extra Deck in any real capacity; they sometimes dip into it for an Xyz or Synchro or Norden, but other than that, they're perfectly happy with their own main deck cards to get shit done. Now, I'm not talking about Monarchs, whose main deck cards explicitly prevent them from using the Extra Deck, but decks that CAN use the Extra Deck, they just normally DON'T use it. How many decks can you think of that do that, and how many of them can be considered at least somewhat competitive in the Meta?

Right now, I know U.A. and Yosenju are two, as well as variants of Graydle and/or Kaiju. Stun decks don't usually run the Extra Deck, due to issues with their floodgates (so stuff like Wanghu stun, Chain Beat, etc.)... What else?

Hope in the Interstice
15th February 2016, 02:01 AM
Off the top of my head, there's Aromas and Kozmos.

Volteccer
15th February 2016, 02:17 AM
The Gishki don't. I'm not sure about the Nekroz. Probably other ritual-based decks too.

Jakinus
15th February 2016, 02:18 AM
Infernoids, Mermail Atlanteans, you can even count Lightsworn if they only use JD.

Archsorcerer
15th February 2016, 02:22 AM
Ritual focused decks.

King
15th February 2016, 02:23 AM
How could you forgey about Monarchs ?

iNfiniTe Se7eNz
15th February 2016, 02:23 AM
The Gishki don't. I'm not sure about the Nekroz. Probably other ritual-based decks too.

They do, if you double Zielgigas into Superdreadnought Rail Cannon Gustav Max. Nekroz used Lavalval Chain, and they "use" the extra deck as fodder for Kaleidomirror.

SynjoDeonecros
15th February 2016, 02:34 AM
How could you forgey about Monarchs ?

I didn't forget; I specifically omitted them, because they rely on cards with effects that specifically lock the player out of the extra deck. I'm talking about decks that CAN use it, but usually DON'T NEED to.

King
15th February 2016, 02:37 AM
I didn't forget; I specifically omitted them, because they rely on cards with effects that specifically lock the player out of the extra deck. I'm talking about decks that CAN use it, but usually DON'T NEED to.

Who said they cannot use it, Mega Zaborg builds exists.

Dyson Sphere
15th February 2016, 02:48 AM
Infernoids, Mermail Atlanteans, you can even count Lightsworn if they only use JD.

infernoids use extra deck lol

SynjoDeonecros
15th February 2016, 03:07 AM
Who said they cannot use it, Mega Zaborg builds exists.

How many of them are competitive?

Jakinus
15th February 2016, 03:09 AM
infernoids use extra deck lol

The question was how many deck DON'T REGULARLY use the extra deck.

Infernoids can use the extra deck but it's not their main strategy. It makes the mills and dealing with certain troubles easier but they are ok with reasoning their way to victory.

Kaos45
15th February 2016, 04:10 AM
[...] you can even count Lightsworn if they only use JD.

Oh, there's somebody who has never heard of Michael or Minerva. Why do you think, Raiden is a tuner?
lmfao



Exodia
ChainBurn
Toon
Dark World
Agent
Spellbook
Batteryman
Fortune Lady
Skull Servants
Watt Lockdown
Wolkian
Rock Stun
Frognarch
Machina Gadget (idk, Gear Gigant... really?)
Inzektor
Volcanics (do they really need Emeral?)
Earthbound Immortal
Melodious (don't need extra)
Fire King (could live without... Tiger King= Tenki searcher, Direwolf, Castel)
Steelswarm
Reptilianne/Venom (Feral Imps would still be good here)
Herald of Creation
UA
Kaiju
Deskbot
Any stupid OTKs/FTKs

Sanokal
15th February 2016, 05:29 AM
Kaos, you may want to read the statement that you quoted again.

Kaos45
15th February 2016, 09:53 AM
Nah.
If you play Raiden you play an Extra Deck.

Mofiz
15th February 2016, 12:45 PM
Kaos, you may want to read the statement that you quoted again.

Since Minerva is out, everyone uses it. Everyone. And Lumina ->Raiden was always one of the key cards. Judgment Dragon.dek died with Dragons.

- - - Updated - - -


The question was how many deck DON'T REGULARLY use the extra deck.

Infernoids can use the extra deck but it's not their main strategy. It makes the mills and dealing with certain troubles easier but they are ok with reasoning their way to victory.

Infernoids do use the Extradeck Regularly. PSYLord Omega is always being spammed for several reasons. They don't need to, but they do quite often

- - - Updated - - -


Infernoids, Mermail Atlanteans, you can even count Lightsworn if they only use JD.

Deap Sea Diva First Turn Moulingia+ Gaio Combo is a thing. Actually, the moment you have Deap Sea Diva, you always go into Synchro.

- - - Updated - - -


The Gishki don't. I'm not sure about the Nekroz. Probably other ritual-based decks too.

Nekroz spams Rank 4. Which isn't really surprising though

Mofiz
15th February 2016, 12:48 PM
Oh, there's somebody who has never heard of Michael or Minerva. Why do you think, Raiden is a tuner?
lmfao



Exodia
ChainBurn
Toon
Dark World
Agent
Spellbook
Batteryman
Fortune Lady
Skull Servants
Watt Lockdown
Wolkian
Rock Stun
Frognarch
Machina Gadget (idk, Gear Gigant... really?)
Inzektor
Volcanics (do they really need Emeral?)
Earthbound Immortal
Melodious (don't need extra)
Fire King (could live without... Tiger King= Tenki searcher, Direwolf, Castel)
Steelswarm
Reptilianne/Venom (Feral Imps would still be good here)
Herald of Creation
UA
Kaiju
Deskbot
Any stupid OTKs/FTKs

Volcanics are Trap Spam + Rank 4. They don't even appear pure, they always go with some sort of other Trap Engine or more Level 4 Spam.
Deksbot use Pendulums, if that counts.
Herald uses Arc Light with Gale Dogra. Not necessary but the moment they get it, it pays 6000
Dark World summons a fuckton of Rank 8 and Rank 3
Gadgets are useless on the field alone, they have to be R4NKed somehow.

Hope in the Interstice
15th February 2016, 12:57 PM
Deksbot use Pendulums, if that counts.
Don't forget the Synchros. Also, welcome back for now.

Mofiz
15th February 2016, 01:00 PM
Don't forget the Synchros. Also, welcome back for now.

Oh yeah, forgot 001.
Also, I won't be around much, just wanted to correct a few things.

Kaos45
15th February 2016, 02:54 PM
Deksbot use Pendulums, if that counts.

Pendulums don't belong to the Extra Deck.

Volteccer
15th February 2016, 03:39 PM
Pendulums don't belong to the Extra Deck.

Then, by that logic, pure Performapals count. Only pure variants, though.

Butter
15th February 2016, 08:13 PM
How many of them are competitive?

Unfortunately N'tss isn't a thing yet, and you said nothing abouy whether or not the deck had to be competitive. After playing the deck I can tell you that it definitely is competitive, even more so than some of the decks listed earlier.
Side note: A deck doesn't have to be game breaking to be competitive. The word means that your build is optimized for tournament level play.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yeah and Steelswarm and Genex, but mostly cause they're almost unusable.

SynjoDeonecros
15th February 2016, 08:20 PM
So, I seem to be drawn to decks that don't normally use the Extra Deck in any real capacity; they sometimes dip into it for an Xyz or Synchro or Norden, but other than that, they're perfectly happy with their own main deck cards to get shit done. Now, I'm not talking about Monarchs, whose main deck cards explicitly prevent them from using the Extra Deck, but decks that CAN use the Extra Deck, they just normally DON'T use it. How many decks can you think of that do that, and how many of them can be considered at least somewhat competitive in the Meta?

Right now, I know U.A. and Yosenju are two, as well as variants of Graydle and/or Kaiju. Stun decks don't usually run the Extra Deck, due to issues with their floodgates (so stuff like Wanghu stun, Chain Beat, etc.)... What else?

Um... yes I did, right in the bolded text.

Butter
15th February 2016, 08:24 PM
You're right I missed that part, but it is still a competitive deck.

Unless by "How many of them are competitive" you mean how many of them are topping, but even then a lot of those other decks don't top either.

SynjoDeonecros
15th February 2016, 08:37 PM
Not exactly topping, just how many are competitive enough to compete with the top decks (like rouge to tier 2/3).

ScionStorm
15th February 2016, 09:04 PM
Pendulums don't belong to the Extra Deck.

Pendulum Decks make use of the Extra deck even if they don't stock it with Extra Deck monsters.

Kaos45
15th February 2016, 11:43 PM
Pendulum Decks make use of the Extra deck even if they don't stock it with Extra Deck monsters.

Pendulums aren't Extra Deck monsters, it's just their mechanic.
I guess Konami was in trouble when creating them and instead of making another Zone for them, they're simply placed face-up in the Extra Deck.

Qli is a good example here. They had an Extra Deck but they pretty rarely used it (→ Towers Turbo).

Megamaw
19th February 2016, 08:52 PM
Has no one called out Kaos45 on Skull Servants yet? I'm surprised.

Kaos, have you ever played Skull Servants? When it wasn't banned, Lavalval Chain was a very important card for dumping Wightprinces, Mezukis, and the like.

Rank 1s can be very important when you have a Wightprince in hand that you have no way to ditch.

Castel is a super good card, and since you can run it, you should.


But the thing that really makes me think you probably haven't played any sort of Zombie deck (at least, in recent history) is the neglect to mention Synchro Summoning.

Plaguespreader has always been an excellent tuner, but nowadays it doesn't see much use, outside of being combined with Malicious for a level 8, or for a Rank 2 deck involving Quillbolt.

The real star of the show is Uni-Zombie, which is super important to the deck since we've lost Chain, and Math is at 1.

I won't bore you with a super long paragraph of detailed ways to summon every monster, but I'll go over some of the more important options that this opens up, while also dumping Mezukis and Wightprinces.

Black Rose- Board clear. Needs no introduction.

Beelze- Super powerful against the Kozmo matchup. The only option they have that I can think of is Kozmojo.

Void Ogre- It's not impossible to empty your hand in Skull Servants. It's, indeed, very possible. Void Ogre is a good card for securing your board presence.

Scarlight- Deal with opponent threats, keep your King, and possibly punch in that last bit of damage much like Cowboy would.

Trishula- This is easier to go into than first glance makes one think. This was banned until recently for a reason-- the power of Trish's effect probably needs no explaining.

Psyframe Lord Omega- This card pushed Wights to a new level. And probably any other Zombie deck that uses Uni-Zombie. Not only is it tricky to remove, but it also lets you reuse your Mezukis, over and over again...

The graveyard effect won't always come into play, but it can either be disruptive to your opponent, or recycle important power cards for your own reuse.



tl;dr: What're you talking about? Skull Servants love their Extra Deck.

SynjoDeonecros
21st February 2016, 06:52 PM
I'm tempted to experiment with one of these decks that don't normally use the Extra Deck that much without the Extra Deck entirely, just to see how much of a difference having it would be compared to not having it; U.A. would probably be the best bet, since it's pretty self-contained, in and of itself...

Volteccer
21st February 2016, 09:50 PM
I'm tempted to experiment with one of these decks that don't normally use the Extra Deck that much without the Extra Deck entirely, just to see how much of a difference having it would be compared to not having it; U.A. would probably be the best bet, since it's pretty self-contained, in and of itself...

Given I can only have out 1 Kaiju at a time, there's never much of a chance to use it there.

Sanokal
21st February 2016, 11:04 PM
Kaiju depends on the hybrid.

SynjoDeonecros
22nd February 2016, 01:15 AM
Kaiju depends on the hybrid.

Yeah. Kaiju Yosenju uses it less, I believe, than Kaiju Graydles; Kaiju, as a whole, don't use the Extra Deck, I don't believe, but if you do a hybrid of it with something else, it's that something else's reliance on the Extra Deck that dictates how much you use it.

Volteccer
22nd February 2016, 03:36 AM
I play pure Kaiju, but I'm thinking of teching in Gagaga magician for the occasional rank 7 and 8 fun.

SynjoDeonecros
22nd February 2016, 03:51 AM
I play pure Kaiju, but I'm thinking of teching in Gagaga magician for the occasional rank 7 and 8 fun.

I thought about running both Kaiju and Graydles separately, but they meshed too well together to really make me think of them as separate decks. Mind posting your build?

Baroque
22nd February 2016, 07:10 AM
I play pure Kaiju, but I'm thinking of teching in Gagaga magician for the occasional rank 7 and 8 fun.

Even better than just 'occasional Rank 7 and 8 fun', you'd also end up being able to pump out another Kaiju if your opponent still controlled one. That's certainly something worth consideration.

SynjoDeonecros
22nd February 2016, 03:50 PM
Well, I mean, Jizukiru is a thing, and I heard you can OTK pretty easily with Radian, so...

SynjoDeonecros
29th March 2016, 01:57 AM
So, how many decks currently in the meta right now can I run without an extra deck? I know there's Kozmo, but what else?

JoJoToast
29th March 2016, 04:30 AM
I assume by meta you also mean rogue decks otherwise the answer to your question would be obvious so i guess there is:

-Kozmo, although i usually dip into the extra at least once a match, it's not essential for the deck to function
-Kaiju/Kaiju Hybrid decks, with the strong effects of Kaiju's and their combo's with Greydles and Yosenju, and the the ability to only control one Kaiju, the extra deck is rarely used
-Atlantean Mermails, other than opening Diva, you won't synchro, and Xyz are not essential, though preferable.
-U.A , well, you consider them good enough so i guess i'll put them here
-Pure Majespecter w/o Magicians, if you want to play an extremely backrow heavy version, you won't find yourself using the extra for anything other than an occasional Castel and such.
-Random anti-meta chain beat, burn and such decks.

Top Tier Meta-wise you don't really have that many choices on non extra deck reliant deck other than Kozmo.

Volteccer
29th March 2016, 12:34 PM
Aren't monarchs still good?

SynjoDeonecros
29th March 2016, 04:42 PM
Monarchs are doing pretty good, now, yeah. They're just still overshadowed by Draco Performapals, like every other deck...

SynjoDeonecros
29th March 2016, 08:13 PM
I assume by meta you also mean rogue decks otherwise the answer to your question would be obvious so i guess there is:

-Kozmo, although i usually dip into the extra at least once a match, it's not essential for the deck to function
-Kaiju/Kaiju Hybrid decks, with the strong effects of Kaiju's and their combo's with Greydles and Yosenju, and the the ability to only control one Kaiju, the extra deck is rarely used
-Atlantean Mermails, other than opening Diva, you won't synchro, and Xyz are not essential, though preferable.
-U.A , well, you consider them good enough so i guess i'll put them here
-Pure Majespecter w/o Magicians, if you want to play an extremely backrow heavy version, you won't find yourself using the extra for anything other than an occasional Castel and such.
-Random anti-meta chain beat, burn and such decks.

Top Tier Meta-wise you don't really have that many choices on non extra deck reliant deck other than Kozmo.

I wouldn't say that U.A. is that good, since the lack of good level 4 U.A. monsters (other than Midfielder) really restricts it, but it can be rather explosive if done right.

And I mean decks that are good in the tournament scene, right now, not just niche rogue decks.