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Never die
21st March 2016, 06:31 PM
So i just finished watching dm,now having watched all yugioh series i have a complete opinion on them.So i make this topic to see your opinion on them and discuss with you why you rate them as such(nothing too much just a few words or more i would like as less words as i contain myself to).For this topic i suggest we don't mention arc v since this is ongoing so this is a topic regarding the 4 completed yugioh series.
4)Zexal:This series has for the most part very boring and predictable duels,suffering from the utopia syndrome and always ending on overkills with under 500 life points,it has a weak beggining,gets better at Zexal II but even the good points of Zexal II are not well done as by the end something happens that makes the good points invalid or pointless,example is Vector you have a villan on the rank of Yami Marik,that killed Nasch because he did not like him and sacrificied almost everyone for the sake of his plan(even innocent bystanders)and yet that person turns good in the end,Kaito has a normal death but returns anyway(that makes the fact that Kaito had a normal death completely pointless),speaking of Kaito,Zexal has one problem that dm has which is the fact they have a small number of main characters.Irronically Zexal has the best animation of all yugioh series so far. 3)Gx:while Gx has the most character development of all yugioh series(in both guality and quantity)it has the least plot consistensy out of all yugioh series,debatable if it is good or bad,the duels are very straightforward and simple,they are easy too follow but nothing stands out much.Regarding Jaden i know he is the main character but there is way too much focus on him(apart from season 3)and the other character have lesser screantime and usefullness as a result.
2)5ds:5ds and DM have the best duels both in diversity and creative,5ds in terms of combos usage it surpassed DM but sadly in the second arc the diversity took a step down in the duels of the main characters(while not as bad as Zexal there were a quite a few 'utopia' syndromes here and there),5ds has a wider main cast then Gx and Zexal and slowly reveals how everything is connected while the show prograsses,also 5ds propably has the strongest beggining out of all the yugioh series.1)DM:Even now i am having a hard time deciding whatever or not i like 5ds or DM the most,while DM has a small main cast just like zexal,it has the biggest diversity in duels as a different outcome is being presented every time,in terms of story i like how it reveals the roots of how everything begun and how many people moved the 'gear' of the story to conclude to the plot we have now but another problem is that it has a slow pacing at some times,doma arc is in my opinion the best arc of any yugioh series.

Dread Kaiser
21st March 2016, 08:29 PM
I rank GX the worst, but otherwise my list matches yours for about the same reasons

GX: Anyone got good subs for this? I could never find them

+Pre-Xyz HERO's were awesome
+That last Episode was pure awesome
+ YUBEL, fucking nightmare inducing as she was, she was a legitimately threatening villian, way better than "My deck doesn't function against MC power" Sartorius
+Great character development
-....for...what 5 people?
-Rushed last arc hurts since It probably had the best potential out of them
-dear god, that waste of potential
- the setting was dumber than card games on motorcycles. srsly
- too many shitloads of misc. stupid shit (Dino DNA? That Ra Episode? Card Game Tarz- the bulk of season 1s first half, that Prince who both had the keys and remote to a Kill Sat on him then willingly Wagered them both...)

a few well written characters, in a HORRIBLY written plot with too many standalone episodes

ZeXaL: "wait wut? Dread? Not ranking (no pun intended) Zexal Last? and without a 45 minute rant on it?! WTF" Yes, believe it or not I never had THAT bad of an opinion on it, I simply ranked the others higher. my legendary arguments were more about me disagreeing with Raiko over his comments on it being "THE" best and then giving non-sensical reasons for it (like E'Rah somehow made DonK a better villain), then offhandedly dismissing all contrary opinions. Anyway.
+first spinoff with an overarcing plot
- too bad they essentially dropped it at II
+ almost as main character focused as GX (Shark and Kaito got to do stuff, Chazz got .....Chazz'd)
+ The Emperors were Awesome (cept Gilag, he ....really didn't do much aside from brainwashing. even his numbers were boring)
- DonK was not, massive waste of potential awesome there
+ Pretty monster Animation
- Lazy and overused everything else animation (almost everything shooting lasers, obligatory twice per episode Yuma getting knocked over a technicolor background shot, and for some reason the double take "Swoosh" stands out really hard to me) then there was some particularly bad bits like Utopia Beyond flailing its swords on Barian (I remember thinking "damn this looks stupid") before its ATK Drain was used
- overelience on Deus Ex Machina, even by Yugioh standards, leading to-
- EXTREMELY Predictable duels, Especially the first half of II was essentially formulmatic. do not get me started on the Regular 10,000 point overkills from the brink of defeat
+ the end of part 1 was well done IMO, it had one of the few duels to defy my predictions (no C39 vs C32, would have loved to see heartland freak out over "that random kid he gave entry" to having a Chaos Number) and the concept of Xyz Zexal Weapons, that was too awesome to be a 1 time thing
-still had giant Plot holes, and unlike 5D's, I don't know of any executive meddling that it can be blamed on (remember the World going boom Memory?)
+++++VECTOR++++++
-Repressing his last second turn to good, just gonna pretend that the Numeron Code rewrite did itand of course...
--------YUUUUUUUUUMAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!------------
The writer should be burned at the stake for that alone-Beginning of series Yuma. having a MC NOT start off as a card game genius was a good idea, but damnit did they handle that bad

Set up incredibly well, executed incredibly poorly

Other notes: Damn did that duel lodge spawn a shitload of timeline placement debates. good job Statue guy.

Not sure where to put 5D's and DM. the first half of 5D's is probably the single best arcs in the franchise, but part 2.....
+ First series to really introduce MC Ace cards with permenant upgrades (Neos didn't contact fuse enough, Dark Magicians alternate formes were 1 off things)
+ Shooting Star Dragons Debut, on that note:
++MUSIC
+ Main Character deck was actually Competitively viable.
+ JACK FUCKING ATLUS
+ Rex Godwin, Also a well written (and actually REALISTIC) Villain. hell he was 3 fucking Life points away from succeeding in his plans, all while sucessfully hiding them from the Heros til the last minute
- too bad Part 2 went and reset all that development he had gotten...
+Aki, a Competant female character in YGO at fucking last
-Then Crow happened
- its filler was second only to the Virtual World arc in badness (FUCK. CRASHTOWN.)
- Remember the Spirit world? and the little girl who basically had its guardian Deity at her beck and call? neither did the writers. will SOMETHING give that some proper focus? Thanks Crow.
+ The Dark Signers were actually intimidating (how many other villains actually kill scores of people, without having to duel them for it or anything.
- Cept Demak, thanks Crow
- Yusei VS Jean, nuff said
- Yusei, awesome as he was he was also an invincible Hero
+ The Meklords were awesome
+ The Earthbound Gods were awesome
+ Shooting. Quasar. Dragon. Its name is the only thing I can really complain about
+ Z-ONE: "Yes audience, you all figured it out months in advance from the minor visual details I Am actually Future Yusei!...'s #1Fanboy" Well played writers
- COSMIC BLAZAR DRAGON, GIMME GIMME GIMME.
-Remember the rest of Yusei's extra deck? neither did the part 2 Writers (who became the Zexal writers if im not mistaken)
+ZUSHIN. THAT ENTIRE DUEL was made of awesome
-FUCK 4KIDS FOR SKIPPING IT


DM: ENGAGE ROSE-TINTED GLASSES!
+++++++++++++Multiple amazing Villians (its really a shame the Orichalcos arc and R are non-canon) I'd be writing about them for too fucking long so I'll leave it at this
+ Fucking Diversity, Kaiba aside almost no one played the same cards every damn episode the whole run. Dark Magician didn't show up every episode, Joey LOST Red-eyes of all things, Yugi Alternated between the poker knights, Magnet warriors and still had things other than the Dark Magician come out every time.
+- Duelist kingdom, while its rules were...Flexible to say the least, it was still entertaining. and it has the excuse of "the rules didn't exist at the time"
-the cramming in of the "Season 0" material was poorly done
- FUCKING VIRTUAL WORLD. they did shit right for the Orichalcos arc atleast
- Kaiba himself. got shoehorned into places he didn't belong, hell FUCKING VIRTUAL WORLD was HIS arc featuring HIS enemies from HIS past. actaully All the non-Orichalcos filler was like that.
+ Dungeon Dice monsters was awesome, that should have taken off
- Remember when they played other games?
- Millennium world got rushed, making its confusing plot all the harder to keep track of

I could think of more but leaving it at that, been at this too long already

KingJinzo
21st March 2016, 08:37 PM
Dread Kaiser, you can count the Orichalcos arc as canon since the anime and manga don't share the same canon continuity anyway. They share most of the key events, but so many things were changed, they aren't the same canon anymore.

Dread Kaiser
21st March 2016, 09:56 PM
Dread Kaiser, you can count the Orichalcos arc as canon since the anime and manga don't share the same canon continuity anyway. They share most of the key events, but so many things were changed, they aren't the same canon anymore.

I am well aware, but that doesn't mean it ultimately wasn't filler

Sanokal
22nd March 2016, 02:12 AM
I think Luna's stuff went out the window with Akiza's; remember how Sayer was interested in her?

Dread Kaiser
22nd March 2016, 03:26 AM
I think Luna's stuff went out the window with Akiza's; remember how Sayer was interested in her?
both the twins, Aki and Demak were fucked over by crow being forced into the story

That said, its not like Sayer had a chance to do anything with her, Asalla Piscu fucked his HQ up good (and his face)
while he (somehow) lived, there was no way he had the resources to make any move on her

Baconator
22nd March 2016, 04:02 AM
1. Zexal
Honestly, even though Yuma sucked for a while, he did get better, and MOTHERFUCKING VECTOR is not just my favorite yugioh antagonist, but one of my favorite anime antagonists in general. (I could go on about Vector, but it would take a while)

2. 5D's
Dark Signer's arc is still imo the best yugioh arc, and disappointing as Z-ONE's ultimate reveal was, I've always liked Primo for some reason. Bruno's death, Aki being a competent duelist, and THE KING JACK ATLAS, (favorite rival), are pluses as well.

3. DM
It suffers from some of the issues Zexal did, with the large entourage of useless characters, but Anime!Bakura isn't quite a good enough villain to make up for it.

I dropped GX somewhere around late s1 early s2, and I haven't finished ARC V for obvious reasons, so I can't judge them yet. Of note, the gap between the 3 series I rated is rather small, so don't take it as me hating the original.

Never die
22nd March 2016, 05:18 AM
Gx wise most of the cast had character development in terms that almost everybody changed in some way but that character development they had was not seen much due to their character not having much focus to begin with due to Jaden irronically.Yeah it also had lots of random stuff that did not add anything to the series,just like the Dino Dna(what was the point of that since neos could handle the satelite on his own,only for him not be brainwashed?jaden did everything in the end so its not like him being on his side changed anything).

Zexal while it had a little less focus on the main character than gx its not like it used the other main character well,in the first arc Shark was just there,yes there was the thing that Tron wanted him to be an assasin for DrFaker but that failled and never got anywhere.In Zexal II while it was very nice that Shark got his deserved screantime Kaito was underused as a result,he was just there only for dueling Mizael.
The emperors apart from Shark and Vector either were underused or were bland,even Rio her motive for joining the Barians was because her brother did so?I guess the writers really needed a reason for bronz to turn to dust and Nasch to be angry.Imao while Zexal had predictable duels (even when they did not use the Deus EX machina)the first half (apart from the last duels of the second half)had better duels overall than the second half because sometimes yuma's opponents had an actually strategy and sometimes yuma freaking summoned leviathan dragon.Vector turning good seriously ruined his good run as a villain for me.
I agree while having a mc not being good was a good idea,dammit did they handle it very bad,with a mc being generic to the core and staying generic even in the end,not having any kind of character development apart from dueling(even that happened off screan appearantly astral taught him)Joey was a very good example of a newbie duelist handled well.Kotori what do i need to say about her,even ranting about her for 45 minutes won't be enough.

5DS wise i really like how Goodwin was still a doomsday villain but had a different take on it.Honestly about Aki while i understand why people like that fact that a female character was one of the main characters,all of her success even the first arc was due to having plot armor on her side.For me and i know it may sounds weird the most succesfull female character is Mai,she had top rankings in every tournament she appeared,she had legit character development and she even legitly defeated one of the 3 main characters DM had(notice how the best thing to happen to a female character was in the doma arc?).
Even if he changed the story i liked Crow to be frank,yusei vs team unicorn was awesome apart from the end,what a wasted potential considering they wouldn't be out of the tournament even if they lost that one.I am glad that Zone was so well written,not only due to the fact that 'i am your future you' has been done to death but due to the fact that he is Yusei despite not being Yusei(wait what?)he discarded every part of his original self in order to become Yusei (the person that inspired everyone in the past)to help guide people to a better future(just like yusei would)and it worked......for a little while but humanity betrayed his trust,so he showed that even with Yusei's potential to guide people the world was still destinated to be screwed,so he basiccaly did what Yusei would do meaning Yusei had already failled to save everyone in that apocalyptic future.

Dark magician was present in almost all of yugi's duels in the duelist kingdom arc but irronically i don't think Dark magician ever finished a duel(dark paladin did 2 if that counts).Virtual world arc was good enough,it provided nice backstory,the deck manster concept provided an entertaining fresh concept and the duels were pretty good,the problem was it was very wrongly placed as it happened in the middle of the battle city the important stuff.

Dread Kaiser
22nd March 2016, 05:24 AM
Dude, break up your sentences better, that was a bitch to read. Line break is your friend
FUCKING VIRTUAL WORLD provided no backstory we didn't already have (obviously minus the stuff Noa was involved with) and the biggest issue was that it was ultimately pointless, Noa was after Kaiba, everyone else just HAPPENED to be there with him....in a Blimp.....over the fucking pacific ocean. None of it concerned the Main group other then the fact they happened to be there. They had no personal connection to any of it nor did any of the villains have one to them. and while the Deckmaster thing was nice, it was just fluff. completely uneeded.

as for GX and Character development, Aside from the main group in season 3, all of it was more or less off screen and especially in Zane's case, extremely forced.

for Kotori, nothing needs to be said, only needs to be burned.
For teh Emperors, you forgot Alit (and I personally don't really consider Shark or Rio to be members, given they were essentially seperate characters for most of the show) who had:
A, a damn good deck and good duels to go with
B, A fucking personality
C, a relationship with the MC, one that goes beyond "I'm Evil and want to shadow realm you for reasons"
Already mentioned Gilag, and Durbe could have used more of a personality

Never die
22nd March 2016, 05:28 AM
1. Zexal
Honestly, even though Yuma sucked for a while, he did get better, and MOTHERFUCKING VECTOR is not just my favorite yugioh antagonist, but one of my favorite anime antagonists in general. (I could go on about Vector, but it would take a while)

2. 5D's
Dark Signer's arc is still imo the best yugioh arc, and disappointing as Z-ONE's ultimate reveal was, I've always liked Primo for some reason. Bruno's death, Aki being a competent duelist, and THE KING JACK ATLAS, (favorite rival), are pluses as well.

3. DM
It suffers from some of the issues Zexal did, with the large entourage of useless characters, but Anime!Bakura isn't quite a good enough villain to make up for it.

I dropped GX somewhere around late s1 early s2, and I haven't finished ARC V for obvious reasons, so I can't judge them yet. Of note, the gap between the 3 series I rated is rather small, so don't take it as me hating the original.

Please go on about Vector,i don't mind as he is Vector after all but for me the fact that he turned good at the last moment really ruined his character even though apart from that he was a pretty enjoyable/awesome villain.About Z-one what was dissapointing?Would you prefer he was the ' i am the future you' trope that has been done to death?Bakura may not be your kind of villain then,unlike Vector he was not a troll kind of villain but damn did he know how to plan ahead which is why his plans succeded despite the fact he lost every duel he was in.Don't worry about that but if you would not mind i am interested to hear as to why you put each series one over the other even if the gap is small.

Sanokal
22nd March 2016, 05:29 AM
both the twins, Aki and Demak were fucked over by crow being forced into the story

That said, its not like Sayer had a chance to do anything with her, Asalla Piscu fucked his HQ up good (and his face)
while he (somehow) lived, there was no way he had the resources to make any move on her

Didn't they end up reworking all the cult stuff because of Carly's seiyuu? It'd explain more than just Crow doing everything; let's be real, an entire season of filler wasn't Crow's fault. And Sayer came back and l got arrested; I wouldn't put much past him if he got plot armour.

On another note, while I do acknowledge that Crow was going to be the Final Boss of the Dark Signers arc I'm so glad that didn't happen. Goodwin was far better an antagonist. Crow would probably have been proto-Shinji.

Anyway, my ranking is:
ARC-V: Easily my favourite; a diverse cast with few characters that I outright hate and one of the best antagonists so far (Roget). Excellent twists and plenty of questions to keep me interested. So far it's been excellent.

Yu-Gi-Oh!: The classic, what we all grew up with. Probably some of the best feels and relationships in all the series, the best mythology and most of the best villains. Marred only by the filler seasons and the animation after the second season.

5D's: Excellent cast; even if half of them got shafted, and some good antagonists including one of my personal faves. Badass monsters and a very intriguing overarching plot.

ZEXAL: I genuinely enjoyed watching this because of Shark, Kite, and later Vector, as well as Doctor Faker. Sadly the dueling devolved into the Magic Poker Equation and Poor Predictable Rock and lots of things got shafted (mainly Shark's Numbers and Kite in ZEXAL II.)

GX: I couldn't watch this without comparing it to the original and finding it inferior. Starting off with half a season of filler didn't help, nor did having so much in season two. That being said I adored the fourth season even if I didn't like Jaden's new attitude.

Dread Kaiser
22nd March 2016, 05:40 AM
Didn't they end up reworking all the cult stuff because of Carly's seiyuu? It'd explain more than just Crow doing everything; let's be real, an entire season of filler wasn't Crow's fault. And Sayer came back and l got arrested; I wouldn't put much past him if he got plot armour.


They reworked Yliaster from Ancient cult to timetravelers, "Forgot" the Arcadia Movement and basically reset Jack over that one. the rest was Crow being forced into the plot to sell blackwings

Never die
22nd March 2016, 06:50 AM
Dude, break up your sentences better, that was a bitch to read. Line break is your friend
FUCKING VIRTUAL WORLD provided no backstory we didn't already have (obviously minus the stuff Noa was involved with) and the biggest issue was that it was ultimately pointless, Noa was after Kaiba, everyone else just HAPPENED to be there with him....in a Blimp.....over the fucking pacific ocean. None of it concerned the Main group other then the fact they happened to be there. They had no personal connection to any of it nor did any of the villains have one to them. and while the Deckmaster thing was nice, it was just fluff. completely uneeded.

as for GX and Character development, Aside from the main group in season 3, all of it was more or less off screen and especially in Zane's case, extremely forced.

for Kotori, nothing needs to be said, only needs to be burned.
For teh Emperors, you forgot Alit (and I personally don't really consider Shark or Rio to be members, given they were essentially seperate characters for most of the show) who had:
A, a damn good deck and good duels to go with
B, A fucking personality
C, a relationship with the MC, one that goes beyond "I'm Evil and want to shadow realm you for reasons"
Already mentioned Gilag, and Durbe could have used more of a personality

Sorry for that,its a bad habit of mine since i am not used to the forums much(and i tend to storm through while typing).
You mean to say learning who the big 5 are and why they betrayed Kaiba and sided with Pegasus to overthrow him was not important backstory?
Or who Gozaburo was and how Kaiba become the president at such a young age?
Or how Gozaburo mold Seto to become the asshole he was in the beggining?
It was concerning the main group a little as they helped kaiba escape the virtual world back when they were in kaibaland effectively scewing up the big 5's plan,true Noah did not care much about them but they were connected a little to big 5(very little)and as i already said the virtual world arc was badly placed.

Zarkiel
22nd March 2016, 07:15 AM
If we're not including arc v, since it so far has succeeded the others in my opinion, here's how I'd rank them.

1. Zexal and 5ds: I feel like these both are equally good since zexal had the shit beggining, but made up for it with its villians while 5ds had much better characters, but the story kind of fell flat between season 1 and 2 (it seemed like they tried to tie the two together, but it didn't work)

3 (or 2, idk which). DM. mostly just nostalgia, but going back and watching episodes, it was really boring. Most duels were won using the iconic monsters, but I liked the idea of having an upgraded boss monster.

4 GX. Could we not have a more scattered plot? At least the others were tied to each other. Perhaps its just me watching it in english and thinking "boy, did they mess this up"

Dread Kaiser
22nd March 2016, 11:51 AM
Sorry for that,its a bad habit of mine since i am not used to the forums much(and i tend to storm through while typing).
You mean to say learning who the big 5 are and why they betrayed Kaiba and sided with Pegasus to overthrow him was not important backstory?
Or who Gozaburo was and how Kaiba become the president at such a young age?
Or how Gozaburo mold Seto to become the asshole he was in the beggining?
It was concerning the main group a little as they helped kaiba escape the virtual world back when they were in kaibaland effectively scewing up the big 5's plan,true Noah did not care much about them but they were connected a little to big 5(very little)and as i already said the virtual world arc was badly placed.

No actually, none of that was really important and most of it was established already

it was basically more details into what we already knew had happened

King
22nd March 2016, 01:49 PM
I Start from the worse to better

GX: Episodes are not linked with each other, making GX storyline weak. Some characters don't have enough development or were tossed away, like Manjoume. And speaking about Manjoume (or Chazz), compared to his Manga counterpart he is total dumbass. Now backing to the Lack of character development aspect, oll other characters seems like bags for Judai to carry, the whole show is Judai-Centered. One of the few positive points of GX is Judai having many rivals, which fortunally happens in Zexal.

DM: Well, the game wasn't solid at the first 20-30 episodes, but this doesn't matter at all. Overall the show is good, characters had enough development, storyline was intresting, even the fillers. Just the last arc was a letdown, there is no Duel in it, its yugioh how can they solve things without duels ?

Zexal: First of all. Zexal introduces my favourite Summoning Method, and obiviously the best Extra Deck Summon. They kinda dropped the bar a little bit, comparing to the mature environment 5D's had. At the begining Yuma was only a douchebag, and i had no faith in Zexal i kinda dropped it, but after 2 months i returned to watch the show, and the first time Kaito faced Yuma, it restored my faith in Zexal, now the show would go somewhere, the first season was good Main characters had enough Development, the antagonist was a real antagonist. Second Season ownards the show evolved, the plot was intresting, Vector fucking ruled, Shark became relevant.

ARC-V: Stays here in second, since is not complete, i won't do a full Review yet

5D's: Is the best, it was Mature and a bit Darky, going back to the roots. Dark Singners arc was awesome, the main Villan was incredible and have a view. The main character had a decent Rival, Akiza is the first main female character that does not need to be shielded by the Protagonist, unfortunally Crow stole all her spotlight. luckly Crow became a decent character. Yliaster arc was great, its a shame that the show became a bit of Yusei-Centered, but the good storyline and how it develops, could cover this. Z-One was a good antagonist, his goals were, the goals of a villain. The show has some complex themes like, humanity's Greed, social segregation. The most well-made yugioh series ever made.

Baconator
22nd March 2016, 02:13 PM
Please go on about Vector,i don't mind as he is Vector after all but for me the fact that he turned good at the last moment really ruined his character even though apart from that he was a pretty enjoyable/awesome villain.About Z-one what was dissapointing?Would you prefer he was the ' i am the future you' trope that has been done to death?Bakura may not be your kind of villain then,unlike Vector he was not a troll kind of villain but damn did he know how to plan ahead which is why his plans succeded despite the fact he lost every duel he was in.Don't worry about that but if you would not mind i am interested to hear as to why you put each series one over the other even if the gap is small.

First off, a trope is not the same as a cliche. I would much rather have Z-ONE be a future Yusei than a Yusei cosplayer. Bakura was awesome, but he was a lot cooler in the manga, where he slaughtered tons off people in the memory world arc. As for Vector, I don't think his turning good ruined him at all. Yuma deciding to die with Vector was evidence of Yuma growing as a character, and Vector deciding to not kill him was a rational choice, especially considering that he had recently regained memories of himself not being a dick and so was probably a bit confused at the time.

Dread Kaiser
22nd March 2016, 05:44 PM
I Start from the worse to better

GX: Episodes are not linked with each other, making GX storyline weak. Some characters don't have enough development or were tossed away, like Manjoume. And speaking about Manjoume (or Chazz), compared to his Manga counterpart he is total dumbass. Now backing to the Lack of character development aspect, oll other characters seems like bags for Judai to carry, the whole show is Judai-Centered. One of the few positive points of GX is Judai having many rivals, which fortunally happens in Zexal.

DM: Well, the game wasn't solid at the first 20-30 episodes, but this doesn't matter at all. Overall the show is good, characters had enough development, storyline was intresting, even the fillers. Just the last arc was a letdown, there is no Duel in it, its yugioh how can they solve things without duels ?

Zexal: First of all. Zexal introduces my favourite Summoning Method, and obiviously the best Extra Deck Summon. They kinda dropped the bar a little bit, comparing to the mature environment 5D's had. At the begining Yuma was only a douchebag, and i had no faith in Zexal i kinda dropped it, but after 2 months i returned to watch the show, and the first time Kaito faced Yuma, it restored my faith in Zexal, now the show would go somewhere, the first season was good Main characters had enough Development, the antagonist was a real antagonist. Second Season ownards the show evolved, the plot was intresting, Vector fucking ruled, Shark became relevant.

ARC-V: Stays here in second, since is not complete, i won't do a full Review yet

5D's: Is the best, it was Mature and a bit Darky, going back to the roots. Dark Singners arc was awesome, the main Villan was incredible and have a view. The main character had a decent Rival, Akiza is the first main female character that does not need to be shielded by the Protagonist, unfortunally Crow stole all her spotlight. luckly Crow became a decent character. Yliaster arc was great, its a shame that the show became a bit of Yusei-Centered, but the good storyline and how it develops, could cover this. Z-One was a good antagonist, his goals were, the goals of a villain. The show has some complex themes like, humanity's Greed, social segregation. The most well-made yugioh series ever made.

In defense of Memory world, that was actually somewhat the point
Originally, Games decided everything, Keyword "Games" not "Duel Monsters". Duel monsters was honestly a diviation in the original concept so Memory world was more returning to roots in that one. That and aside from the fact that they were IN A giant TTRPG, it would have been EXTREMELY out of place to actually have proper duels there to begin with. also there was 2 duels, Bakura VS Kaiba at the very start and Bakura clone VS Normal!Yugi

Dread Kaiser
22nd March 2016, 05:49 PM
First off, a trope is not the same as a cliche. I would much rather have Z-ONE be a future Yusei than a Yusei cosplayer. Bakura was awesome, but he was a lot cooler in the manga, where he slaughtered tons off people in the memory world arc. As for Vector, I don't think his turning good ruined him at all. Yuma deciding to die with Vector was evidence of Yuma growing as a character, and Vector deciding to not kill him was a rational choice, especially considering that he had recently regained memories of himself not being a dick and so was probably a bit confused at the time.

Actually if you recall, when Vector regained his true memories, he instantly used them to trick Nasch into attacking before Switching back to ...well VECTOR. hell he knew about DonK's Manipulation to begin with, he wasn't confused in the slightest. all of which makes the sudden change more and more out of character.

yes the whole thing speaks volumes about Yumas Character, but it would have been more in character for Vector to try and Drag Yuma down out of Spite (ie, is motivation for LITERALLY EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE UP TIL THEN)

Never die
22nd March 2016, 06:23 PM
No actually, none of that was really important and most of it was established already

it was basically more details into what we already knew had happened

Out of all the 3 instances i mentioned which one was that was established?Unless i don't remember correctly i am pretty sure none of those things were explained elsewhere apart from that arc.

First off, a trope is not the same as a cliche. I would much rather have Z-ONE be a future Yusei than a Yusei cosplayer. Bakura was awesome, but he was a lot cooler in the manga, where he slaughtered tons off people in the memory world arc. As for Vector, I don't think his turning good ruined him at all. Yuma deciding to die with Vector was evidence of Yuma growing as a character, and Vector deciding to not kill him was a rational choice, especially considering that he had recently regained memories of himself not being a dick and so was probably a bit confused at the time.Yes but if a trope is done to death it becomes cliche,the writers had us fooled as when we saw Z-one's face we thought he was yusei yet they gave us something new and interesting,and surprisingly the fact that him being a Yusei cosplayer added more to his character and made him better than he would have been had he been a future Yusei.
As for Vector turning him turning good would not have ruined him..........had he not been the person that killed Nasch and his sister because he did not like Nasch and guess why he did not like Nasch?Because he did not like his voice.The first thing he does when he regains his memories is use them to trick Nasch,not to mention he admits he knew Don screwed with his memories but did not care at all since he was content with who he was.And guess what he does right after yuma tries to save him?He tries to take him down with him since he was going to die anyways,so that last second him turning around is sudden and contradicts his whole character.

Baconator
22nd March 2016, 07:11 PM
Actually if you recall, when Vector regained his true memories, he instantly used them to trick Nasch into attacking before Switching back to ...well VECTOR. hell he knew about DonK's Manipulation to begin with, he wasn't confused in the slightest. all of which makes the sudden change more and more out of character.

yes the whole thing speaks volumes about Yumas Character, but it would have been more in character for Vector to try and Drag Yuma down out of Spite (ie, is motivation for LITERALLY EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE UP TIL THEN)

Vector said that he had regained his memories before that, he had planned to trick everyone using them beforehand. The fact remains that he was certainly more unstable than usual, because he realized he used to be a good guy. It was in character for him to try to drag Yuma with him, which is what he did, but upon the realization that Yuma is willing to die for "Ray", and still considers him his friend, it makes sense that Vector decided not to kill him, because he was kind of a mess, and was trying to decide whether he was Vector or Ray. Yuma's actions just made him decide more quickly.

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Out of all the 3 instances i mentioned which one was that was established?Unless i don't remember correctly i am pretty sure none of those things were explained elsewhere apart from that arc.
Yes but if a trope is done to death it becomes cliche,the writers had us fooled as when we saw Z-one's face we thought he was yusei yet they gave us something new and interesting,and surprisingly the fact that him being a Yusei cosplayer added more to his character and made him better than he would have been had he been a future Yusei.
As for Vector turning him turning good would not have ruined him..........had he not been the person that killed Nasch and his sister because he did not like Nasch and guess why he did not like Nasch?Because he did not like his voice.The first thing he does when he regains his memories is use them to trick Nasch,not to mention he admits he knew Don screwed with his memories but did not care at all since he was content with who he was.And guess what he does right after yuma tries to save him?He tries to take him down with him since he was going to die anyways,so that last second him turning around is sudden and contradicts his whole character.

Is "Antagonist is future protagonist" really done to death? I've never seen it before.

Dread Kaiser
22nd March 2016, 08:26 PM
Is "Antagonist is future protagonist" really done to death? I've never seen it before.

I wouldn't say "To death", but yes its been done

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FutureMeScaresMe

Cheesedude
23rd March 2016, 05:01 AM
This thread seems to be specifically talking about the anime only, so I'll do that first:

1. ZEXAL - Surprising absolutely no one, ZEXAL is my favorite. I think many of you have seen my spiel before, so I'll be brief. I can't judge ZEXAL as anything less than my favorite when it moved to tears in the last arc multiple times. Nothing in the anime barring the Ceremonial Battle in DM has ever done that otherwise.

2. GX - GX was an absolute fucking mess. Very little of it made any sense whatsoever. And I love every moment of it. The writers clearly had no plan from the start and were just throwing stuff at the wall. Hit or miss, it was entertaining and without it, there is 0 chance I'd be into YGO at all. GX brought me back into the fandom. Twice. The second time, thankfully, was in time for ZEXAL.

3. DM - DM is good, yeah. I actually have a LOT of complains about it, some of which can't be counted because of the early installment weirdness. But it still has its charms. DM is of course how I got into YGO in the first place, but as I said, it was GX that drew be back in and kept me around.

4. 5D's - 5D's was also a mess. But unlike GX, it didn't start as a mess and was actively trying to NOT be a mess. And it failed at that. I'm aware of the behind-the-scenes stuff, but that does not change the end result. To be clear though, I love 5D's. I just don't love it the least of all YGO. The Fortune Cup probably is still the best arc YGO has ever had, I can't deny that. And Crash Town was my ideal YGO. Take Yusei and Kiryu out of Crash Town and replace them with original characters. That right there is a solid fucking six-episode mini-series.

At current, ARC-V would be dead in the middle, I think or maybe below DM. Not sure. Also likely to change by the end.

Biggest takeaway is this: For me, YGO is at its best when its being as ridiculous and nonsensical as possible. And despite that, it can still very easily pull of emotional moments and solid storytelling.

Now, if we're talking about the manga, I haven't fully read any of them except for GX. And the GX manga is one of my favorite things ever. Not YGO things. Things. Period.

GX manga > Cheese

Baconator
23rd March 2016, 05:10 AM
4. 5D's - 5D's was also a mess. But unlike GX, it didn't start as a mess and was actively trying to NOT be a mess. And it failed at that. I'm aware of the behind-the-scenes stuff, but that does not change the end result. To be clear though, I love 5D's. I just don't love it the least of all YGO. The Fortune Cup probably is still the best arc YGO has ever had, I can't deny that. And Crash Town was my ideal YGO. Take Yusei and Kiryu out of Crash Town and replace them with original characters. That right there is a solid fucking six-episode mini-series.


Fortune Cup? Do you mean Dark Signers Arc? Fortune Cup is one of my least favorite arc's because Yusei was pretty much the only one to duel. EVERYONE had awesome duels during the dark signers arc, and the Leo/Luna tag team should've been like that the entire series.

Dread Kaiser
23rd March 2016, 05:56 AM
And Crash Town was my ideal YGO. Take Yusei and Kiryu out of Crash Town and replace them with original characters. That right there is a solid fucking six-episode mini-series.

Fucking. Genius.
#CheeseforWriter


Biggest takeaway is this: For me, YGO is at its best when its being as ridiculous and nonsensical as possible. And despite that, it can still very easily pull of emotional moments and solid storytelling.


would explain why our lists are almost opposites, I prefer the more serious tone's. Arc V hits right at home on that one. silly, but extremely serious when you actually stop and think about it. a little Too serious at times though....

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Fortune Cup? Do you mean Dark Signers Arc? Fortune Cup is one of my least favorite arc's because Yusei was pretty much the only one to duel. EVERYONE had awesome duels during the dark signers arc, and the Leo/Luna tag team should've been like that the entire series.

well the MC getting more duels (and the way the tourny was setup means the winner of it naturally appears more) is to be expected. the Fortune cup is easily one of the best written arcs ever IMO.

Cheesedude
23rd March 2016, 06:03 AM
No, I did mean the Fortune Cup.

Yusei at the start of the series was actually a really interesting character, so I didn't really mind him dueling so much. He did not stay that way and ends up being probably the most boring YGO character by the end, for me.

Never die
23rd March 2016, 06:58 AM
Vector said that he had regained his memories before that, he had planned to trick everyone using them beforehand. The fact remains that he was certainly more unstable than usual, because he realized he used to be a good guy. It was in character for him to try to drag Yuma with him, which is what he did, but upon the realization that Yuma is willing to die for "Ray", and still considers him his friend, it makes sense that Vector decided not to kill him, because he was kind of a mess, and was trying to decide whether he was Vector or Ray. Yuma's actions just made him decide more quickly.

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Is "Antagonist is future protagonist" really done to death? I've never seen it before.Maybe to death was a little too much but almost everytime the future has something to do with the plot,it turns out the antogonist is the main character of the future and in the few times its not the protagonist its one of the other main characters.
This thread seems to be specifically talking about the anime only, so I'll do that first:

1. ZEXAL - Surprising absolutely no one, ZEXAL is my favorite. I think many of you have seen my spiel before, so I'll be brief. I can't judge ZEXAL as anything less than my favorite when it moved to tears in the last arc multiple times. Nothing in the anime barring the Ceremonial Battle in DM has ever done that otherwise.

2. GX - GX was an absolute fucking mess. Very little of it made any sense whatsoever. And I love every moment of it. The writers clearly had no plan from the start and were just throwing stuff at the wall. Hit or miss, it was entertaining and without it, there is 0 chance I'd be into YGO at all. GX brought me back into the fandom. Twice. The second time, thankfully, was in time for ZEXAL.

3. DM - DM is good, yeah. I actually have a LOT of complains about it, some of which can't be counted because of the early installment weirdness. But it still has its charms. DM is of course how I got into YGO in the first place, but as I said, it was GX that drew be back in and kept me around.

4. 5D's - 5D's was also a mess. But unlike GX, it didn't start as a mess and was actively trying to NOT be a mess. And it failed at that. I'm aware of the behind-the-scenes stuff, but that does not change the end result. To be clear though, I love 5D's. I just don't love it the least of all YGO. The Fortune Cup probably is still the best arc YGO has ever had, I can't deny that. And Crash Town was my ideal YGO. Take Yusei and Kiryu out of Crash Town and replace them with original characters. That right there is a solid fucking six-episode mini-series.

At current, ARC-V would be dead in the middle, I think or maybe below DM. Not sure. Also likely to change by the end.

Biggest takeaway is this: For me, YGO is at its best when its being as ridiculous and nonsensical as possible. And despite that, it can still very easily pull of emotional moments and solid storytelling.

Now, if we're talking about the manga, I haven't fully read any of them except for GX. And the GX manga is one of my favorite things ever. Not YGO things. Things. Period.

GX manga > Cheese

Yeah we are talking about the anime.To be honest since i have seen you praise zexal out of nowhere i was wondering why you like it so much,so thats why its your best because it moved you to tears?Judging from your ranking you seem to like light hearted series a lot.Is other any other reason you like it so much?To be honest so far King has give me the most valid reasons why would someone rank Zexal so high(not only in this thread but from other discussions as well)as still some people say only because they made them cry and i wonder what excactly what is so emotianal as i was not moved when i watched it(maybe because i predicted that they would redo every bad thing as soon as numeron code was mentioned and it turns out i was right,taking away everything that was serious).

As for me Zexal was the first yugioh series(from DM i did not remember anything apart from the guy with the weird hair was named yugi) i watched full(and it was in sub),don't get me wrong i do not dislike zexal(despite being the lowest in my list),i found it enjoyable and it had some good points but for me those few good points(especially considering that everyone turns good and returns alive) were not that worth it and the series only served me in appreciating the other ones more.

The reason i rank DM and 5Ds as my favourites is because apart from the fact that they have the best duels out of any series so far and follow a serious plotline,that also if we think subjectively they are still the best series yugioh has to offer so far.

Dread Kaiser
23rd March 2016, 02:59 PM
No, I did mean the Fortune Cup.

Yusei at the start of the series was actually a really interesting character, so I didn't really mind him dueling so much. He did not stay that way and ends up being probably the most boring YGO character by the end, for me.

yeah as it went on he became more ....bland. Stoic invincible Hero who never loses. Made nice foil for Jack though

Cheesedude
23rd March 2016, 04:23 PM
Yeah we are talking about the anime.To be honest since i have seen you praise zexal out of nowhere i was wondering why you like it so much,so thats why its your best because it moved you to tears?Judging from your ranking you seem to like light hearted series a lot.Is other any other reason you like it so much?To be honest so far King has give me the most valid reasons why would someone rank Zexal so high(not only in this thread but from other discussions as well)as still some people say only because they made them cry and i wonder what excactly what is so emotianal as i was not moved when i watched it(maybe because i predicted that they would redo every bad thing as soon as numeron code was mentioned and it turns out i was right,taking away everything that was serious).

Disclaimer: This post is a combination of posts I've made in the past on NAC and Disqis. Its also really long.

The plot built off of itself. The existence of the Barian World was forshadowed in EPISODE 19. They dropped more hints about it throughout ZEXAL I before it was properly introduced in ZEXAL II. That's good writing, especially when you compare it to "past life robot Illuminati from the future".

I found Yuma to be a refreshing spin on a YGO protagonist. Having him be not only bad, but TERRIBLE at the game was pretty cool. Watching him improve over the course of the series was gratifying. It also led to some nice moments like his loss to Shark in episode 10. It showed they really were taking a different tact this time. I keep picking on 5D's, but its the best comparison: This was far more compelling for me than Yusei "Never loses ever" Fudo. Even with the "he can't lose because Astral will die" thing shoved in, he still had a fair amount of losses. That kept things unpredictable.

I won't claim the Duel writing was good, but I must say it was much better in ZEXAL I. Not just at the start with Yuma using Leviathan Dragon, but there some Duels where there was no Xyz until turn 5 or so, which is unheard of later. ZEXAL II took ace card syndrome and blew it out of the water, which is my main complaint.

The first arc of ZEXAL was slow, but once it got going I was hooked. The WDC was similarly slow, but it was nice to see Yuma develop in a more casual setting before the shit hit the fan. The debut of the Tron Family and their plotline with Shark carried it along for me.

The WDC finals were really enjoyable, the BS duel fields aside. Tron vs. Kite was probably my favorite ZEXAL Duel, especially because it was hard to guess who would win. It was actually up in the air.

I felt like the first arc of ZEXAL II was pretty slow, just like ZEXAL I. However, I really did like Girag. He was good for comic relief but showed later on that he wasn't just a joke. He would have smashed Yuma had Rei not been there. Speaking of Rei, the reveal with Vector is probably my favorite moment in any YGO series and Vector truly did define the rest of the show for some. Alito's debut (particularly his debut episode only theme song) hooked me back in as well. The second arc of ZEXAL II had the story take very interesting turns with the Barians, which kept me interested, along with Dark Mist's reappearance.

Finally, the last arc was amazing. I loved Shark's turn here. I wasn't sold on it at first, but once it was done, I had much more respect for how they pulled it off. Kite's death was oddly poignant (especially considering how little I really cared for Kite). Similarly, they managed to get me to care about Mizael...in the episode where he died. I found him tremendously boring before that (though that also gave us the classic Seventh One moment, so I suppose I can't complain). A lot of the last arc's strength lies in the voice acting. Yuma's gets tremendous credit here. Every time he cried (which was like every other episode), the emotion he managed to put into it was heartbreaking. In the same vein, the absolutely crazed sounding voice Nasch's voice actor pulled off when Beyond the Hope destroyed Barian was fantastic.

Shining Draw took some serious fucking balls to write in. And I loved it. YGO reached the point of self-parody. For the kids, Shining Draw was a neat superpower that was used sometimes. I think it was also intended to be a send-up to older fans that basically says "yeah, this show is ridiculous and we all know that, so screw it, we're going all-in". It was good to them poking fun at themselves. Let's face it, every Duelist ever has used Shining Draw every turn, there just weren't flashy lights and all caps screaming to accompany it.

Yuma gets hate for not using Numbers, but don't tell me Yusei used his monsters more effectively. Aside from Junk and Nitro Warriors, he rarely used anything more than once or twice. He relied much less on Stardust at first, but by the WRGP he had developed a disorder that forced him to Summon it as early on and as often as possible. I mean Christ, Junk Archer and Turbo Warrior would both be outs to the Meklord Emperors, but he doesn't use them because plot. Much the same with Yuma. Some of the Numbers would be ways out of situations, but he doesn't use them because plot.

The complains about it "stealing" from DM also struck me as odd. It reminds me of that commercial where Diet Coke tries to sue Coke One. Those references were there for two reasons: To re-tell the basic premise of DM for a new generation and as neat send-ups for older fans like us.

Are there things I would change about ZEXAL? Hell yes. It could have been so much better. But every single YGO series could have been so much better. No series ever lives up to its full potential and that's perfectly alright. So although I would have preferred ZEXAL to have been done differently, I still thought it was fantastic. I didn't imagine it would unseat GX as my favorite, but it did by quite a bit. It was consistently entertaining throughout (sometimes it was an entertaining masterpiece, sometimes it was an entertaining trainwreck). That's more than I can say for DM (where they four-to-five episode long duels grew tiring), GX (where the plot vanished altogether at points) and 5D's (which had filler that made me want to gouge my eyes out).

Never die
23rd March 2016, 07:53 PM
Disclaimer: This post is a combination of posts I've made in the past on NAC and Disqis. Its also really long.

The plot built off of itself. The existence of the Barian World was forshadowed in EPISODE 19. They dropped more hints about it throughout ZEXAL I before it was properly introduced in ZEXAL II. That's good writing, especially when you compare it to "past life robot Illuminati from the future".

I found Yuma to be a refreshing spin on a YGO protagonist. Having him be not only bad, but TERRIBLE at the game was pretty cool. Watching him improve over the course of the series was gratifying. It also led to some nice moments like his loss to Shark in episode 10. It showed they really were taking a different tact this time. I keep picking on 5D's, but its the best comparison: This was far more compelling for me than Yusei "Never loses ever" Fudo. Even with the "he can't lose because Astral will die" thing shoved in, he still had a fair amount of losses. That kept things unpredictable.

I won't claim the Duel writing was good, but I must say it was much better in ZEXAL I. Not just at the start with Yuma using Leviathan Dragon, but there some Duels where there was no Xyz until turn 5 or so, which is unheard of later. ZEXAL II took ace card syndrome and blew it out of the water, which is my main complaint.

The first arc of ZEXAL was slow, but once it got going I was hooked. The WDC was similarly slow, but it was nice to see Yuma develop in a more casual setting before the shit hit the fan. The debut of the Tron Family and their plotline with Shark carried it along for me.

The WDC finals were really enjoyable, the BS duel fields aside. Tron vs. Kite was probably my favorite ZEXAL Duel, especially because it was hard to guess who would win. It was actually up in the air.

I felt like the first arc of ZEXAL II was pretty slow, just like ZEXAL I. However, I really did like Girag. He was good for comic relief but showed later on that he wasn't just a joke. He would have smashed Yuma had Rei not been there. Speaking of Rei, the reveal with Vector is probably my favorite moment in any YGO series and Vector truly did define the rest of the show for some. Alito's debut (particularly his debut episode only theme song) hooked me back in as well. The second arc of ZEXAL II had the story take very interesting turns with the Barians, which kept me interested, along with Dark Mist's reappearance.

Finally, the last arc was amazing. I loved Shark's turn here. I wasn't sold on it at first, but once it was done, I had much more respect for how they pulled it off. Kite's death was oddly poignant (especially considering how little I really cared for Kite). Similarly, they managed to get me to care about Mizael...in the episode where he died. I found him tremendously boring before that (though that also gave us the classic Seventh One moment, so I suppose I can't complain). A lot of the last arc's strength lies in the voice acting. Yuma's gets tremendous credit here. Every time he cried (which was like every other episode), the emotion he managed to put into it was heartbreaking. In the same vein, the absolutely crazed sounding voice Nasch's voice actor pulled off when Beyond the Hope destroyed Barian was fantastic.

Shining Draw took some serious fucking balls to write in. And I loved it. YGO reached the point of self-parody. For the kids, Shining Draw was a neat superpower that was used sometimes. I think it was also intended to be a send-up to older fans that basically says "yeah, this show is ridiculous and we all know that, so screw it, we're going all-in". It was good to them poking fun at themselves. Let's face it, every Duelist ever has used Shining Draw every turn, there just weren't flashy lights and all caps screaming to accompany it.

Yuma gets hate for not using Numbers, but don't tell me Yusei used his monsters more effectively. Aside from Junk and Nitro Warriors, he rarely used anything more than once or twice. He relied much less on Stardust at first, but by the WRGP he had developed a disorder that forced him to Summon it as early on and as often as possible. I mean Christ, Junk Archer and Turbo Warrior would both be outs to the Meklord Emperors, but he doesn't use them because plot. Much the same with Yuma. Some of the Numbers would be ways out of situations, but he doesn't use them because plot.

The complains about it "stealing" from DM also struck me as odd. It reminds me of that commercial where Diet Coke tries to sue Coke One. Those references were there for two reasons: To re-tell the basic premise of DM for a new generation and as neat send-ups for older fans like us.

Are there things I would change about ZEXAL? Hell yes. It could have been so much better. But every single YGO series could have been so much better. No series ever lives up to its full potential and that's perfectly alright. So although I would have preferred ZEXAL to have been done differently, I still thought it was fantastic. I didn't imagine it would unseat GX as my favorite, but it did by quite a bit. It was consistently entertaining throughout (sometimes it was an entertaining masterpiece, sometimes it was an entertaining trainwreck). That's more than I can say for DM (where they four-to-five episode long duels grew tiring), GX (where the plot vanished altogether at points) and 5D's (which had filler that made me want to gouge my eyes out).Disclaimer:I don't mind,if we don't make long posts in discussions like these when would we?

Yiliaster was foreshadowed in the first arc as well(don't remember the excact episode but it was)."past life robot Illuminati from the future" it certainly does not seem to me much less random than past life humans aliens now from another world.

Having a beginner as a protagonist was a great concept that failled horribly,that is a good description of Yuma(joey was a good example of a beginner done correctly but he was deutoratagonist not a protagonist sadly).He was not only generic in personality but stayed generic till the end.When you consider that he had like 40+duels with Tetso and still did not know the very very basics and then you make him somehow win almost all of his duels it makes his wins even more questionable than Mary Sue Yusei.Even when he was suposed to learn something he forgets it the next episode,for example him losing to Shark and his tag duel with him was suposed to teach him not to rely much on the numbers especially hope and guess what he does in the rest of the series?Him losing non important duels does not make it unpredictable(especially when he was suposed to learn from them like his loss against Shark i just mentioned),if anything it shows how the writers portray Yuma as an inferior duelist to Kaito and Shark and he somehow wins while they die.

Yeah the duels were much better in the first arc,remember when his opponents had an actual strategy instead of just sitting on their one and only boss monsters?

As for Kite vs Tron it was obvious Tron was gonna win since he was the main antagonist in this arc.Yuma vs Tron was awesome even with the field rule but they went to their boss monster really fast,if only they continued the number's battle a little longer this duel would have been one of my favourites in the whole yugioh series and my favourite(which is now)in zexal.

Yeah the beggining of Zexal II had too many fillers as well.The reason Yuma had trouble against Girag was because he was handicapping him by trying to protect Ray(who was misplaying on purpose),not to mention due to the early damage done to him because he tried to protect him Astral was knocked out,thus sealing Zexal.Vector was awesome apart from his last second out of character turn around.

Kite's death was done really well if not for the fact lol Numeron Code making the fact that he had a normal death pointless to begin with.

As for Shinning Draw i seriously doubt that was the case.The reason it was implemented was that due to the fact that the concept excisted the writers could be as lazy as they want with the duel scripts and as Zexal 2 showed they abused the hell out of it,which was one of the many factor of the quality drop of the duels in this arc.Its not like Zexal did not have bs topdecks(just like all yugioh series had)but it was shining draw on top of that as a tool for the writers to get even more lazy with the duels.

He used them more effectievely in the second half than yuma did in his own second half,and the same goes for their first half comparrison,the second half had way too much Stardust but even so it was not as bad(as bad in comparrison to zexal,on its own it was pretty bad) as Zexal 2 case.Meklord in the anime are parts and the main part is protected from the others and there is the fact that Archer even in the anime it removed them till the end phase making him pointless,turbo while it has some protection the fact that the meklord parts can be upgraded and surpass its attack right away make him pointless as well.

Of course no series is perfect.But Zexal had great conceps and failled miserably,the plot was pretty good but the concept of war fell out quite flat when everybody turns good and returns alive,Dm had like 3-4 4 episode duels but it had a lot of 3 part duels that could have been easily 2 part as it had slow pacing in the arcs that were based on the manga ones(most zexal's episodes consisted of yuma and friends screwing around in the 15 out of 20 minutes of the episode and then the duel in the last 5 making a 2 part),Gx i think most people know it has the least plot consistency of all series.Question:5Ds filler were unbearable for you but not zexal's?Which were more and had even less of a point then the 5D'S ones?

Baconator
23rd March 2016, 08:26 PM
Fucking. Genius.
#CheeseforWriter



would explain why our lists are almost opposites, I prefer the more serious tone's. Arc V hits right at home on that one. silly, but extremely serious when you actually stop and think about it. a little Too serious at times though....

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well the MC getting more duels (and the way the tourny was setup means the winner of it naturally appears more) is to be expected. the Fortune cup is easily one of the best written arcs ever IMO.

I would be fine with him just getting more duels, but Jack AND Aki losing their duels so that Yusei had to win 3 times in a row really bugged me.

Baconator
23rd March 2016, 08:30 PM
Shining Draw took some serious fucking balls to write in. And I loved it. YGO reached the point of self-parody. For the kids, Shining Draw was a neat superpower that was used sometimes. I think it was also intended to be a send-up to older fans that basically says "yeah, this show is ridiculous and we all know that, so screw it, we're going all-in". It was good to them poking fun at themselves. Let's face it, every Duelist ever has used Shining Draw every turn, there just weren't flashy lights and all caps screaming to accompany it.


So much this. I can't believe how people complain about the special draws in Zexal and action cards. Not only does shining draw mean that the perfect topdecks that every character gets is explained, but action cards mean that duelists don't have to fill their deck with situational burn negation.

Pendulum
23rd March 2016, 10:36 PM
Let's face it, every Duelist ever has used Shining Draw every turn, there just weren't flashy lights and all caps screaming to accompany it.

Best perspective I've seen so far. And I agree so much with it!

And nice to see someone who liked Zexal! You have to agree it had some plot holes and bad stuff. Like, Kite could slow down time, but he only did it twice. Why?
And I liked Zexal especially because it had some very good mood, you know? Except the last season, where Yuma cried a lot. But even there, it was cool. Good duels. The cards were too OP, though. But Vector alone was the star of the show. That revelation... Wicked.
I liked Yuma's character, but I didn't like Yuma that much, but that's probably because there were some very cool characters in Zexal. I liked the Archlight brothers. Their position in the series, combined with their decks, man, so awesome. Anna Kaboom was cool too, liked her deck a lot.
Both Shark and Kite were good characters as well. They were badass. Oh, and that part when Shark, out of the blue, pulls a Chaos Xyz Evolution? Man, he did it because he was a Barian Emperor, and they kept that hidden for so long, but they were already thinking about it! I liked that a lot!
I agree with what you say about "past life robot Illuminati from the future". That came out of nowhere. 5D's was two series. I mean, you could have had the second without having the first, in a way.
And in Zexal, the duels weren't boring long, unlike 5D's. 5D's duels were so long... But, to you all, I'm not saying 5D's sucked. It didn't. Entirely. I liked Jack and even Crow a lot. Crow's dream being shattered when he found out Goodwin was his hero was pretty dramatic. I liked that. Yusei was cool too, great character, in my opinion. But he had that main character immunity. Strongest, unbeatable. That's not how things should have worked. I liked the fact Yuma never won against Kite, for instance.
And, Cheesedude, I guess my favorite duel was Nash vs. Quattro. Because I like Gimmick Puppets a lot, and because it was a serious duel. It wasn't just a duel. Shark was still a bit divided. He had accepted he was an Emperor, but he would still acknowledge Quattro as a fellow (if I remember correctly). And Quattro was finally on the good side. It was one hell of a clash.
Finally, Vector. Vector was just wow.

My rating would be, from best to worse:
Season 0 - Not focused on something, I liked the diversity.
DM - Well, you can't escape nostalgia. And the characters with those non archetyped focused decks... It was just a pile of cards. And the Pot of Greed spam... Best series.
Zexal - I could say more than I did above, but I guess it's enough.
5D's - Found it a bit boring. It was cool. But I hated lots of things, like the villains. I just hated Aporia and Z-one.
Gx - Never watched it, except for five episodes or so. I don't have much interest.

Regarding Arc-V: Seems to be super cool. The fact they use all summoning types is a plus. Seems to have a good story, it's dark. It's a bit slow, though. But they are able to keep things interesting.

I probably forgot to say a lot of stuff, but this is big enough already.

LolsterXD97
24th March 2016, 12:02 AM
DM > GX > Zexal > 5ds > Arc-V

DM as best because even if the Anime was a shitty adaptation from the Manga, nostalgia value and being the first gives it points above the rest.

From GX I loved everything. It had a great cast and Duel Writing. The plot was a mess, though, but every year having a different story was neat. And I grew up with it thanks to the Dub.

5ds' Fortune Cup was great, but after it the writing went down to hell. There were some moments that rose above the trash (like Clear Mind), but that quality dip really stood out. JACK ATLAS deserves a special mention as THE best thing out of it.

Zexal had a bad start along with horrible Duel Writing, but by the flipside it had cardgames Super Saiyan, gorgerous animation and solid plot structure.

Arc-V's first episodes were great, but after the Standard Arc the writing took a huge nosedive. I still loved some aspects of the following Arcs, though, and it was the first Ygo series I followed weekly. Out of all its colorful cast, Ruri and Yuri were my favorite characters.