PDA

View Full Version : Meta predictions for late 2015-2016



jakeypops101
27th October 2015, 01:25 PM
Im feeling kosmo's will be the deck to beat with there new support they become quite strong where they previously lacked. But i still think burning abyss is the best. What i really want to know is what everyone else thinks will be dominating the game. New rank four spam with cyber dragon infinity maybe??

Mystic TimeKeeper
27th October 2015, 02:27 PM
Surely EmEM will make quite the splash at the start with both Infinity and Rafflesia, don't know if it will last like its OCG counterpart but them and Magicians will surely top some regionals. If anything I think we will have more Odd-Eyes usage in TCG compared to OCG but nothing too massive, Avian will probably stay as the more used option.

Indytotof
27th October 2015, 03:51 PM
Avian will probably stay as the more used option.

Unless Konami realize how broken and stupid this card is on a Magician deck and ban it.

Mystic TimeKeeper
27th October 2015, 03:53 PM
Unless Konami realize how broken and stupid this card is on a Magician deck and ban it.

Honestly, the most plausible option considering OCG trend is that Konami realizes how broken and stupid Apex Avian is and reprints it.

Dyson Sphere
27th October 2015, 03:54 PM
Kozmo definitely, performage too but let's see what other support Kaiju shiranui and other stuff get

Hope in the Interstice
27th October 2015, 04:04 PM
Kozmo definitely, performage too but let's see what other support Kaiju shiranui and other stuff get
I don't expect the Shiranui to get any more new cards and we'll have to wait three months to see more support for Kaiju. However, Monarchs, Performage and Pals, and Kozmo are definites.

MystikX
27th October 2015, 06:08 PM
We won't have Pendulum Wizard for EM&Ems, which, IIRC, is one of the key components to the deck. We also don't have Shock or Chain. And I can't see Rafflesia making that big of an impact, considering we only have 1 Bottomless to OCG's 3.

SynjoDeonecros
27th October 2015, 07:31 PM
I agree that Kozmo and EMems are going to top, which sucks, because it means another round of unfun one- to two-deck metas again. Competitive rouge decks like Yosenjus will be brushed under the rug, and I don't see Burning Abyss or Nekroz being able to compete with them, honestly. Not sure Monarchs will gain steam, honestly; they may become the new competitive rouge deck out there, but I'm having a bit of a hard time seeing it topping. Best case scenario is that that Stellarknight Xyz that brings out Rank 5 Xyz will be limited or banned either by the time we get Infinity and Rafflesia, or shortly afterward. Worst case scenario is that they keep it at 3 and milk those cards for all they're worth until the next Big Thing comes out.

Eva
27th October 2015, 07:38 PM
We won't have Pendulum Wizard for EM&Ems, which, IIRC, is one of the key components to the deck. We also don't have Shock or Chain. And I can't see Rafflesia making that big of an impact, considering we only have 1 Bottomless to OCG's 3.

Don't worry, you'll see Pendulum Sorcerer soon enough.

Rafflesia got powercreeped already, whether or not she exists is no longer relevant. The Trap Holes are gag cards compared to what BOSH will let you do with your backrow.


TCG M&m will be every bit as cancer as OCG, just with less 16 and more Infinity.

Momma_Sophie
29th October 2015, 11:21 PM
Unless Konami realize how broken and stupid this card is on a Magician deck and ban it.

Just. MST. The Scales. FFS.
Wavering Eyes? Breakthrough skill?

Hope in the Interstice
29th October 2015, 11:23 PM
Just. MST. The Scales. FFS.
Wavering Eyes? Breakthrough skill?
Not everyone has access to those on a regular basis. I run two Solemn Notices, a Solemn Warning, two Twin Twisters, and two Wavering Eyes in my Deskbot deck. Oddly enough, they're never around when I need them. Furthermore, every time I use Wavering against an EMEm deck, they either have their own Wavering Eyes to chain or they have Damage Juggler.

Dread Kaiser
29th October 2015, 11:29 PM
Just. MST. The Scales. FFS.
Wavering Eyes? Breakthrough skill?

You have read Pendulum Call right? you know that spell that fetchs scales, then makes them indestructable til the end of next turn?
Not to mention you can only have so many MST's down, they have a LOT of magicians and plenty of searching power

"Just MST them" Stopped being a valid answer a LOOOONG time ago

Noir
29th October 2015, 11:57 PM
Just. MST. The Scales. FFS.
Wavering Eyes? Breakthrough skill?

I hate when people say "just MST the *insert broken card here*". You know that's not always available right?

Hope in the Interstice
30th October 2015, 12:24 AM
Just. MST. The Scales. FFS.
Wavering Eyes? Breakthrough skill?
Case in point; I used a Dinomist-Dracoslayer deck against a pure Majespecter deck. Fourteen turns passed and keep in mind, I run three Wavering Eyes, three Luster Pendulum, and three Clash of the Dracorivals. I didn't see a single one of any of those throughout the entire duel, not to mention the Dinomist Pendulum negation was utterly worthless thanks to Supercell. I managed to keep the pressure on early but, later, I ran out of steam without those cards.

So no. We can't "just MST the scales FFS".

Dread Kaiser
30th October 2015, 12:27 AM
Case in point; I used a Dinomist-Dracoslayer deck against a pure Majespecter deck. Fourteen turns passed and keep in mind, I run three Wavering Eyes, three Luster Pendulum, and three Clash of the Dracorivals. I didn't see a single one of any of those throughout the entire duel, not to mention the Dinomist Pendulum negation was utterly worthless thanks to Supercell. I managed to keep the pressure on early but, later, I ran out of steam without those cards.

So no. We can't "just MST the scales FFS".

There will alyways be people who think that....

seriously if that ever worked, Excition would be worthless, we'd Just Starlight Road it FFS

Add in that the scales are easily Replacable....

Sakuya
30th October 2015, 01:58 AM
and kozmo tier 1 until bosh hits, and if bosh brings sorcerer tcg is t0 and we have either an emergency banlist or another druler format.

ARKhaven
30th October 2015, 02:27 AM
So who's gonna be the players that use Yang Zings with the usual Imperial Iron Wall? I actually wanna see that now

Indytotof
30th October 2015, 06:56 AM
Just. MST. The Scales. FFS.
Wavering Eyes? Breakthrough skill?

Yah because Avian didn't have any negation effect and/or is a Pendulum monster.

No. Avian must leave this game.

JoJoToast
30th October 2015, 07:16 AM
So who's gonna be the players that use Yang Zings with the usual Imperial Iron Wall? I actually wanna see that now

I'm that guy :cool:

Also no-one is hyping Majespecter? I honestly think they have a good chance at topping competitivly for about two months after their release since it's a while till BOSH and Master of Pendulum get released. Even then we can finally mix them with Magicians anyway.

Indytotof
30th October 2015, 07:31 AM
Also no-one is hyping Majespecter? I honestly think they have a good chance at topping competitivly for about two months after their release since it's a while till BOSH and Master of Pendulum get released. Even then we can finally mix them with Magicians anyway.

Majespecters can rot in hell for all i'm concern. I wouldn't mind an instant ban in TCG for those "things".

clairedestroyer!
30th October 2015, 07:37 AM
I'm that guy :cool:

Also no-one is hyping Majespecter? I honestly think they have a good chance at topping competitivly for about two months after their release since it's a while till BOSH and Master of Pendulum get released. Even then we can finally mix them with Magicians anyway.

Specters are honestly kinda bad compared to the other options for pendulum decks and even in the OCG declined pretty rapidly.

Dread Kaiser
30th October 2015, 03:24 PM
I'm that guy :cool:

Also no-one is hyping Majespecter? I honestly think they have a good chance at topping competitivly for about two months after their release since it's a while till BOSH and Master of Pendulum get released. Even then we can finally mix them with Magicians anyway.

No one here likes Majespectre

Icematoro
30th October 2015, 05:35 PM
Majespectres are just not what people wanted, which is both, very sad, and very good, but I digress.

While I agree we might see Rank 4 getting some tops in the near future, guys, try EmEm with TCG's Banlist, they feel and play rather terribly, sure, you have Ptolemaius, but let's be honest, Infinity can only do so much...

Sotavento
30th October 2015, 05:54 PM
Bro, all of these decks are incomplete. It feels as if they did this on purpose, they want Kozmos to rule the format. Two decks that were supposed to come strong this format don't have their core cards: D/D missing Howling, Temujin and Lilith; and EmEM missing Pendulum Wizard. On top of that, it seems that the TCG Rank 4 pool is starting to become different from the OCG one: We won't have Exciton, Shockmaster and Lavalval Chain. But we will have Ptolmao, and to be honest, considering the speed of Kozmos, EmEM will not be as strong as it is in the OCG. They're just incomplete.

Corbeau
30th October 2015, 06:35 PM
I'm surprised nobody mentionned PSY-Frame. This deck was good in the past meta and had a good match up against Kozmo.

Indytotof
30th October 2015, 06:38 PM
I'm surprised nobody mentionned PSY-Frame. This deck was good in the past meta and had a good match up against Kozmo.

How to win against PSY-Frame:

spam the "End Phase" button. Because it's the only thing you're allowed to do.

Dyson Sphere
30th October 2015, 06:45 PM
no ones mentioning Frightfurs. my evil stuffed animals have easily been able to contend with those space ships and witches

Corbeau
30th October 2015, 06:59 PM
How to win against PSY-Frame:

spam the "End Phase" button. Because it's the only thing you're allowed to do.

And you will lose because of Feel Zone and Wind-Up Rabbit.

SynjoDeonecros
30th October 2015, 07:37 PM
no ones mentioning Frightfurs. my evil stuffed animals have easily been able to contend with those space ships and witches

Wait, Frightfurs are good against Kosmo? That's odd, but a good bump for my boyfriend's Frightfur deck...

Dyson Sphere
30th October 2015, 09:11 PM
Wait, Frightfurs are good against Kosmo? That's odd, but a good bump for my boyfriend's Frightfur deck...

yes especially with sabre-tooth's

clairedestroyer!
31st October 2015, 07:07 AM
Kozmo will have a very difficult time with P&P once they recieve the rest of their cards. Kozmo can certainly put huge damage on board but the deck is slow until that point, because the only summons it can use without their big plays already started are the Normal Summon and E-Tele. Maybe Reasoning if you're trying that to speed up its summons. Once the deck is in a position to combo off it will do very well but it takes multiple turns to get there with multiple unusable pieces in hand in the meantime. And that's if it gets there at all. Traps won't help either because traps are innately not combo pieces. Once P&P gets finished TCG side Kozmo will lose a lot pf prominence without serious evolution in what the deck does.

PSY-Frame are going to be the new Ritual Beast most likely, as in a deck with strong power plays that don't use the same general interactions as the rest of the meta (meaning they can floodgate) but they're do or die and hands that aren't ideal might as well be entirely blank. Remember that a big reason they did well the current format is they're still very new and people were not prepared or even knowledgable about them, a huge advantage in a tournament setting. That advantage is gone now.

D/D and Frightfur are not, were not, and will not be meta picks even when completed with what we currently know about them.

Momma_Sophie
2nd November 2015, 07:05 PM
Yah because Avian didn't have any negation effect and/or is a Pendulum monster.

No. Avian must leave this game.

Dude. Break the scales BEFORE it hits.

Momma_Sophie
2nd November 2015, 07:09 PM
Case in point; I used a Dinomist-Dracoslayer deck against a pure Majespecter deck. Fourteen turns passed and keep in mind, I run three Wavering Eyes, three Luster Pendulum, and three Clash of the Dracorivals. I didn't see a single one of any of those throughout the entire duel, not to mention the Dinomist Pendulum negation was utterly worthless thanks to Supercell. I managed to keep the pressure on early but, later, I ran out of steam without those cards.

So no. We can't "just MST the scales FFS".

YGO sucks at shuffling, though. Look, I will address that situation to be totally and utterly unlucky. I personally make sure to be able to find my "Pseudo-MST"s whenever I need them. I also have some Wavering Eyes sides.

Momma_Sophie
2nd November 2015, 07:26 PM
I hate when people say "just MST the *insert broken card here*". You know that's not always available right?

For me, it is. I run a new variant of Harpies (since my Doll variant died). Just like 'Tellarknights, I have about 9 Call of The Haunteds (excluding Hysteric Party) that I can turn into MSTs, on top of the sided Dust Tornadoes. I have more than that ready to f**k up virtually anyone trying to Pendulum. I'm a rebel. Konami will not convert me until I get Pendulum "Harpie" cards.

Enough about me. About you guys: Dust Tornado is a still a thing. Twister. The new Twin Twister that kills TWO cards (while you plus off of the discard cost.) I don't see an excuse. Just have strong monster fronts, and back them up with strong backrow snuffs while you go. Side the ones you don't think you need. Go.

- - - Updated - - -


You have read Pendulum Call right? you know that spell that fetchs scales, then makes them indestructable til the end of next turn?
Not to mention you can only have so many MST's down, they have a LOT of magicians and plenty of searching power

"Just MST them" Stopped being a valid answer a LOOOONG time ago

Okay, then let me give you a variant of the phrase:

"Just 'shuffle' the thing 'back!'"
"Just 'Return' the thing 'to the top/bottom of the deck.'"
"Just 'Solemn' the thing!'" -- Look, Solemn Notice + Solemn Scolding + Solemn Warning = No excuse.
"Just 'hit' the thing 'with Lose 1 Turn!'"

I can go on.

- - - Updated - - -


Not everyone has access to those on a regular basis. I run two Solemn Notices, a Solemn Warning, two Twin Twisters, and two Wavering Eyes in my Deskbot deck. Oddly enough, they're never around when I need them. Furthermore, every time I use Wavering against an EMEm deck, they either have their own Wavering Eyes to chain or they have Damage Juggler.

Anti-Spell Fragrance.

Indytotof
2nd November 2015, 07:37 PM
Dude. Break the scales BEFORE it hits.

That is easy in theory.

In practice however.... Try to break a scale in a deck that can have a quick replacement, can make his scales immune to MST (Sky Arc ? Pendulum Call ?).

Avian must be errated to be pendulum summon incompatible (and stay to 3) or go to 0.

Pendulum
2nd November 2015, 08:21 PM
For me, it is. I run a new variant of Harpies (since my Doll variant died). Just like 'Tellarknights, I have about 9 Call of The Haunteds (excluding Hysteric Party) that I can turn into MSTs, on top of the sided Dust Tornadoes. I have more than that ready to f**k up virtually anyone trying to Pendulum. I'm a rebel. Konami will not convert me until I get Pendulum "Harpie" cards.

Enough about me. About you guys: Dust Tornado is a still a thing. Twister. The new Twin Twister that kills TWO cards (while you plus off of the discard cost.) I don't see an excuse. Just have strong monster fronts, and back them up with strong backrow snuffs while you go. Side the ones you don't think you need. Go.

- - - Updated - - -



Okay, then let me give you a variant of the phrase:

"Just 'shuffle' the thing 'back!'"
"Just 'Return' the thing 'to the top/bottom of the deck.'"
"Just 'Solemn' the thing!'" -- Look, Solemn Notice + Solemn Scolding + Solemn Warning = No excuse.
"Just 'hit' the thing 'with Lose 1 Turn!'"

I can go on.

- - - Updated - - -



Anti-Spell Fragrance.

So, how many MSTs, Dust Tornados, Double Cyclones, Twin Twisters, Fairy Winds, Anti-Spell Arrows, Castels, Ignisters, Excitons, Lose 1 Turns, Skill Drains, Vanity's, PWWBs, Anti-Spell Fragrances, Solemns, Wavering Eyes and Magic Jammers do you run in your deck?
Sure these cards may help you getting rid of certain annoying cards. But how do you manage to draw them at the right time?
And please don't answer me like: Quick Booster searches MST and stuff, A Cat of Ill Omen searches the Traps and Clowns+Luster for Extra Deck.

SynjoDeonecros
2nd November 2015, 08:53 PM
I feel there's a theoretical paradox here that remains unobserved and untested, but I dunno what it would be called... Sorta like the Monty Hall paradox, or the paradox of card advantage, but for card pulls and random shuffling...

SynjoDeonecros
3rd November 2015, 02:33 AM
I'm starting to think that, for the next meta, I should run the Yosen Lost Tornado combo (or at least side it), considering the unbreakable scales coming up and the fact that returning cards to the hand won't do much to stymie the opponent's plays. If it wasn't for the fact that it would kill my Yosenjus as well, I'd run Degenerate Circuit for the combo, but yeah...

Mofiz
3rd November 2015, 06:03 AM
For me, it is. I run a new variant of Harpies (since my Doll variant died). Just like 'Tellarknights, I have about 9 Call of The Haunteds (excluding Hysteric Party) that I can turn into MSTs, on top of the sided Dust Tornadoes. I have more than that ready to f**k up virtually anyone trying to Pendulum. I'm a rebel. Konami will not convert me until I get Pendulum "Harpie" cards.

Enough about me. About you guys: Dust Tornado is a still a thing. Twister. The new Twin Twister that kills TWO cards (while you plus off of the discard cost.) I don't see an excuse. Just have strong monster fronts, and back them up with strong backrow snuffs while you go. Side the ones you don't think you need. Go.

- - - Updated - - -



Okay, then let me give you a variant of the phrase:

"Just 'shuffle' the thing 'back!'"
"Just 'Return' the thing 'to the top/bottom of the deck.'"
"Just 'Solemn' the thing!'" -- Look, Solemn Notice + Solemn Scolding + Solemn Warning = No excuse.
"Just 'hit' the thing 'with Lose 1 Turn!'"

I can go on.

- - - Updated - - -



Anti-Spell Fragrance.

This is the wrongest thing ever. Here for several reasons.
1)If it's so easy to beat them, why are they Tier 0. 80 fucking percent Clown Decks.
2)If "just MST" it was an argument, why are cards like Royal Oppression, Imperial Order and Ultimate Offering, Snatch Steal and Premature Burial banned? I mean, just MST it.
3) You CAN'T have access to enough backrow hate all the time, except if you run this: http://i.imgur.com/2Cu23E5.png

4) Even IF you run enough backrow hate. In most cases you won't make any advantages from it. Meanwhile, they storage all the destroyed cards in their Extra Deck, so they can summon it with the other Scales of their Deck which pretty much every Monster.
5) You either can't get rid of it because of Pendulum Call or they play Entermages and just chain their own Wavering Eyes. Or even better, you destroy their Flame Mascot and they go like "Oh no, now I have to summon Damajuggler from my Deck so I can Xyz into Feral Imps and search for two more Scales. Summoning back the shit, you just destroyed without them making any disadvantage at all.

In theory, everything sounds easy. Just because your opponents are bad players, doesn't it mean that you can easily outplay them. People sided tripple Anti Spell Fragnen against Magicians. Didn't stop them from topping.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 06:49 AM
Okay, then let me give you a variant of the phrase:

"Just 'shuffle' the thing 'back!'"
"Just 'Return' the thing 'to the top/bottom of the deck.'"
"Just 'Solemn' the thing!'" -- Look, Solemn Notice + Solemn Scolding + Solemn Warning = No excuse.
"Just 'hit' the thing 'with Lose 1 Turn!'"

I can go on.


You are GLORIOUSLY missing the point, you will not always have those cards available (Unless you cheat or are really damn lucky, Neither of which are factors when talking about Probability)
I can run 3 Starlight Road, 3 Breakthrough, 3 Veiler whatever, and still get murdered by Nukeroach or whatever I happen to be afraid of at the time, I simply will not have an out around 100% of the time.

"Just Kill it" is NEVER a valid answer to this, Not to mention in this case "Just Return/Shuffle The thing" will just end up being negated.

Otherwise so many things would not be on the banlist
We could have Just MST'd:
Future Fusion
Qliphort Scout
Snatch Steal
Card of Safe ...ANY Continous spell or trap on the list.

EVERY banned monster could be bototmless'd or Solemned

So why are they banned if they have so many simple solutions, with more coming every pack?

Geez I should really not have to explain this.....

Mofiz
3rd November 2015, 07:15 AM
You are GLORIOUSLY missing the point, you will not always have those cards available (Unless you cheat or are really damn lucky, Neither of which are factors when talking about Probability)
I can run 3 Starlight Road, 3 Breakthrough, 3 Veiler whatever, and still get murdered by Nukeroach or whatever I happen to be afraid of at the time, I simply will not have an out around 100% of the time.

"Just Kill it" is NEVER a valid answer to this, Not to mention in this case "Just Return/Shuffle The thing" will just end up being negated.

Otherwise so many things would not be on the banlist
We could have Just MST'd:
Future Fusion
Qliphort Scout
Snatch Steal
Card of Safe ...ANY Continous spell or trap on the list.

EVERY banned monster could be bototmless'd or Solemned

So why are they banned if they have so many simple solutions, with more coming every pack?

Geez I should really not have to explain this.....

One may think, that this Kind of common sense was explained often enough already. I think I will just redirect people to threads now if they say something like that..

- - - Updated - - -


You are GLORIOUSLY missing the point, you will not always have those cards available (Unless you cheat or are really damn lucky, Neither of which are factors when talking about Probability)
I can run 3 Starlight Road, 3 Breakthrough, 3 Veiler whatever, and still get murdered by Nukeroach or whatever I happen to be afraid of at the time, I simply will not have an out around 100% of the time.

"Just Kill it" is NEVER a valid answer to this, Not to mention in this case "Just Return/Shuffle The thing" will just end up being negated.

Otherwise so many things would not be on the banlist
We could have Just MST'd:
Future Fusion
Qliphort Scout
Snatch Steal
Card of Safe ...ANY Continous spell or trap on the list.

EVERY banned monster could be bototmless'd or Solemned

So why are they banned if they have so many simple solutions, with more coming every pack?

Geez I should really not have to explain this.....

One may think, that this Kind of common sense was explained often enough already. I think I will just redirect people to threads now if they say something like that..

SynjoDeonecros
3rd November 2015, 07:25 PM
Can we please end the argument over floodgates and how to get rid of them? I think we all got the gist of it; yes, there's ways to handle them that anyone can throw in, but not all of them will be available to you at the opportune time, so it's a matter of the draw that you have to take into consideration with.

Anyway, the people on TCGPlayer are thinking Qliphorts, Shaddolls, and Nekroz are over and done with, Satellarknights and Burning Abyss will survive with some tweaking, and we should all hail our incoming Clownbait Overlords. Does that sum things up for you guys?

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 08:09 PM
Can we please end the argument over floodgates and how to get rid of them? I think we all got the gist of it; yes, there's ways to handle them that anyone can throw in, but not all of them will be available to you at the opportune time, so it's a matter of the draw that you have to take into consideration with.

Anyway, the people on TCGPlayer are thinking Qliphorts, Shaddolls, and Nekroz are over and done with, Satellarknights and Burning Abyss will survive with some tweaking, and we should all hail our incoming Clownbait Overlords. Does that sum things up for you guys?

This isn't about floodgates, its a different flavor of the "It can be countered" Argument that many many people have made before. and unfortunately, some people do not get the gist of it...

and you didn't need to go to TCGPlayer to find out that. that should be obvious just looking at the list and teh Forum for the banlist announcement itself

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 08:57 PM
That is easy in theory.

In practice however.... Try to break a scale in a deck that can have a quick replacement, can make his scales immune to MST (Sky Arc ? Pendulum Call ?).

Avian must be errated to be pendulum summon incompatible (and stay to 3) or go to 0.

Castel. I never said that the scales had to destroyed, nor targeted (Seitsemas).

Nothing needs to happen to Apex Avian; we need to try harded and solve our own problems. Konami gave us Exciton Knight (a great answer to Pendulum), and took it away. My theory is that they want to push us into Pendulum Summoning for the sake of business. Now then, you have these people that were complaining about the field-wiping capabilities of the exact same card, yet it was that card that could fix the pendulum problem!

I'm not saying that I have all of the answers; I am saying that there is an answer, and I have found mine (try harder, find the cards and use them well -- I can and could religiously defeat good Qliphort decks with pure Harpies before and after the hits, which I don't think is really actually anything to brag about considering that Harpies are nothing BUT backrow hate anyways. Wait, so... yet somehow other Harpie players couldn't get over the Qli, regardless...what?). What's yours?

--Sophie.

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 09:04 PM
So, how many MSTs, Dust Tornados, Double Cyclones, Twin Twisters, Fairy Winds, Anti-Spell Arrows, Castels, Ignisters, Excitons, Lose 1 Turns, Skill Drains, Vanity's, PWWBs, Anti-Spell Fragrances, Solemns, Wavering Eyes and Magic Jammers do you run in your deck?
Sure these cards may help you getting rid of certain annoying cards. But how do you manage to draw them at the right time?
And please don't answer me like: Quick Booster searches MST and stuff, A Cat of Ill Omen searches the Traps and Clowns+Luster for Extra Deck.

My entire deck is an MST in your defense. Here's my point: Find the S/T kill cards that you can plus off of. I can plus off of Twin Twister, by dropping Harpist or Sign for the sign. Burning Abyss plus off anything needing a discard cost.

My other point is that people generally don't keep things linear. They want to cover ALL of the threats, when their deck only really needs to stave off 1 or 2 in particular. Or, my other theory: People don't CREATE consistency in their decks. They'd rather have Konami do it for them. "Konami needs to release such-a-such because such-a-such needs it." That phrase will never leave my mouth because I don't wait for Konami to fix my problems; I use what they have already given me. So many forgotten cards in this game go unused, and its those veyr same cards that answer present problems. Find them.

The contents of my deck do not matter because it is my deck, not yours; find your own solutions to your decks problems. I'm not accusing you of wanting to steal my deck ideas or whatever -- though you and others may very well do so. I am accusing you of potentially perpetuating a ridiculous cycle: a cycle where people simply imitate, rather than procreate decks. Please don't take offense, I'm just telling things like they are. Every deck has a weakness. Find it. Hide it/Fix it.

I understand that people have the issue of not being able to get to cards when they need them. Know why? You don't have enough in the deck that do that job. Of COURSE you aren't going to find 1 of 3 out of 40 cards in a decks every time! DUH. So, stick in more cards that do that general idea! I used to have that problem too: "Man, I never see Icarus Attack!" Who said I only had to run Icarus attack to remove my problems? Who said that destruction was the only way to move cards? Majispecter are clearly going to test our wits, and people are crapping themselves because they have to actually try!

Then there's the "I run, like, 9/40 cards that move my problems!" Okay... 9/40 is literally less than 25%. Yeah, of course you won't see them! So, thin out your deck with searchers and draw power so you get to them (Pot of duality? Upstart? etc?). And even then, It's still technically 3/40 if you have literally three cards that do a job. Effect Veiler and Breakthrough Skill (for example) both negate effects, yes. Wavering does not. Why do you have Wavering in your deck if 6/40 (which is greater than 3/40) is all about negating effects? Either make 6/40 of the cards (or more) become Pendulum/Spell/Trap hate or remove it for either more thinners or more negation. Then, even having E-Veil and BS isn't that great of an idea. Choose one: Hand traps or Trap Cards. Fiendish chain hits just like Breakthrough skill does, with an added bonus of restricting attack! Divine Wrath is also a great Effect-killing card. Veiler is only optimal when you know you'll be Synchro Summoning more often than not. And even then, it works on your opponent's MAIN PHASE.

Do I have to lay out everything? I know that you all have the potential. Use it.

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 09:13 PM
...../facepalm

I'm done here....

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 09:14 PM
-Scratch everything-

When someone facepalms me to signify that I'm apparently a waste of their time, I stop talking.

I saw people struggling with a problem, and I came to voice a possible solution that works for me.
My two cents aren't good enough to overcome the perpetual butthurt. So I'll leave it there ^

Good luck.

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 09:19 PM
-Scratch everything-

When someone facepalms me to signify that I'm apparently a waste of their time, I stop talking.

I saw people struggling with a problem, and I came to voice a possible solution that works for me.
My two cents aren't good enough to overcome the perpetual butthurt. So I'll leave it here.

Yeah, if you can't understand the idea of "You will not always have an MST" no one would ever want any deck you make

There is no butthurt here, just...pity

unfortunately, you are correct, you are a waste of my time at this point.

Goodbye

SynjoDeonecros
3rd November 2015, 09:21 PM
That's true; when I learned ROTA was limited, and thus crippled my U.A. deck, I looked for alternatives I could use instead of moping about it and demanding Konami come out with more U.A. support to compensate. It might be a futile gesture (especially since the only real themed support I can think of is Field-Commander Rahz, and that's a bit slow), but it's worth looking into the big pile of cards we already have before bitching about it.

Mofiz
3rd November 2015, 09:41 PM
I'm not accusing you of wanting to steal my deck ideas or whatever -- though you and others may very well do so.

You know, I'm starting to miss Acetracker when reading bullcrap like this.
Not to mention that he misses the entire point and that every Meta Pendulum Deck used by someone with half a brain would wish the floor with him.

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 09:53 PM
That's true; when I learned ROTA was limited, and thus crippled my U.A. deck, I looked for alternatives I could use instead of moping about it and demanding Konami come out with more U.A. support to compensate. It might be a futile gesture (especially since the only real themed support I can think of is Field-Commander Rahz, and that's a bit slow), but it's worth looking into the big pile of cards we already have before bitching about it.

A friend of mine just told me about "Red Sparrow Summoner." $0.10 card on TCGPlayer. He runs 'Tellarknights, so he also felt somewhat bad about RotA.

- - - Updated - - -


You know, I'm starting to miss Acetracker when reading bullcrap like this.
Not to mention that he misses the entire point and that every Meta Pendulum Deck used by someone with half a brain would wish the floor with him.

No, you're just angry because I refuse to admit that you people are "right," and that I am actually presenting defying statements. "META" Pendulums do NOT faze me at all. Tested and true. I don't know what kind of Harpie/Artifact decks that you've encountered have done. Yet, you need to understand that you don't know me or my mind and what it is capable of. When I say that "I can beat them," it's because I have.

--Sophie.

Pendulum
3rd November 2015, 10:01 PM
My entire deck is an MST in your defense. Here's my point: Find the S/T kill cards that you can plus off of. I can plus off of Twin Twister, by dropping Harpist or Sign for the sign. Burning Abyss plus off anything needing a discard cost.

My other point is that people generally don't keep things linear. They want to cover ALL of the threats, when their deck only really needs to stave off 1 or 2 in particular. Or, my other theory: People don't CREATE consistency in their decks. They'd rather have Konami do it for them. "Konami needs to release such-a-such because such-a-such needs it." That phrase will never leave my mouth because I don't wait for Konami to fix my problems; I use what they have already given me. So many forgotten cards in this game go unused, and its those veyr same cards that answer present problems. Find them.

The contents of my deck do not matter because it is my deck, not yours; find your own solutions to your decks problems. I'm not accusing you of wanting to steal my deck ideas or whatever -- though you and others may very well do so. I am accusing you of potentially perpetuating a ridiculous cycle: a cycle where people simply imitate, rather than procreate decks. Please don't take offense, I'm just telling things like they are. Every deck has a weakness. Find it. Hide it/Fix it.

I understand that people have the issue of not being able to get to cards when they need them. Know why? You don't have enough in the deck that do that job. Of COURSE you aren't going to find 1 of 3 out of 40 cards in a decks every time! DUH. So, stick in more cards that do that general idea! I used to have that problem too: "Man, I never see Icarus Attack!" Who said I only had to run Icarus attack to remove my problems? Who said that destruction was the only way to move cards? Majispecter are clearly going to test our wits, and people are crapping themselves because they have to actually try!

Then there's the "I run, like, 9/40 cards that move my problems!" Okay... 9/40 is literally less than 25%. Yeah, of course you won't se them! So, thin out your deck with searchers and draw power so you get to them (Pot of duality? Upstart? etc?).

Do I have to lay out everything?

--Sophie.

...Well...
No, I'm not trying to steal your deck and your... Ideas.
And don't worry, your words don't offend me.

And now it's my time to say "don't take offense".
So, you always have a card to discard for Twin Twister?.. I mean one that's worth discarding. I just can't believe that.
I just can't understand how you can say those things. You mean that you always have an out for everything? Always? That's kinda hard to believe.
I just can't believe you have a deck that can answer to every threat anytime.
Even if you have 3 Upstarts, 3 Duality, 3 Jar of Greed, even 3 Reckless Greed? Or do you still use Pot of Greed? Harpies do have Hysteric Sign, but even so. I think it's just impossible to have a perfect deck. Even Clowns have flaws. I mean, they could open with 1 MST, 2 Wavering Eyes and 2 monsters that can't SS themselves. And you're here saying your deck has an MST all the time, ready to be used that will plus you? Again, kinda hard to believe.
Have you ever faced top tier decks? Have you played lately?
You sure have a good theory, though. Theory being the keyword.

Mofiz
3rd November 2015, 10:04 PM
A friend of mine just told me about "Red Sparrow Summoner." $0.10 card on TCGPlayer. He runs 'Tellarknights, so he also felt somewhat bad about RotA.

- - - Updated - - -



No, you're just angry because I refuse to admit that you people are "right," and that I am actually presenting defying statements. "META" Pendulums do NOT faze me at all. Tested and true. I don't know what kind of Harpie/Artifact decks that you've encountered have done. Yet, you need to understand that you don't know me or my mind and what it is capable of. When I say that "I can beat them," it's because I have.

--Sophie.

That's the point. I did beat them too. And now beat a consistent build with someone who actually plays intelligently. The fact that your Tier 4 Decks (see the last 100 Tournaments) can't hold a candle is more than proof enough. If they would be so easy to beat, some Harpie Deck would play OCG now. I can guarantee you why they would lose Match 1.

Mystic TimeKeeper
3rd November 2015, 10:08 PM
"Wow, an argument, better stay away!" said no one ever.

To all the people that say "Got a problem? main more counters" can I remember that you still have a deck with a strategy and you may want to draw your key pieces and with every problem solver you put in it's a card less that gets your deck running? There were too many times where I actually drew the counters to things then I lost because I couldn't get things going, especially against today's decks that can outlast you since the times of one for a trap or 2 for a trap are over, if you take Clowns it cost you 2 cards to stop a turn, and pendulums are really resilent.

Making the example of Harpies against Pendulums is a bit convinient since that is close to counterteaming, but aside that everyone can win with at least a competent deck against almost everything, the question is if it can do that on a consistent base and still get a good match-up with the rest of the stuff that runs around. At the time I ran around beating prime Six Samurai with Yusei.dek, that didn't make my deck meta viable in the slightest.

And to point an important thing, my friend's HERO is extremely consistent, but he had problem beating Necloth even with 1st turn Dark Law guaranteed, what do you think the reason is? I say that for every card he spent into consistence he lost protections for Law, but to up the trap count you would have to reduce your chances of 1st turn Dark Law, it's that simple of a trade-off.

Mofiz
3rd November 2015, 10:09 PM
"Wow, an argument, better stay away!" said no one ever.

You can't expect me to think like that.

Pendulum
3rd November 2015, 10:11 PM
"Wow, an argument, better stay away!" said no one ever.

To all the people that say "Got a problem? main more counters" can I remember that you still have a deck with a strategy and you may want to draw your key pieces and with every problem solver you put in it's a card less that gets your deck running? There were too many times where I actually drew the counters to things then I lost because I couldn't get things going, especially against today's decks that can outlast you since the times of one for a trap or 2 for a trap are over, if you take Clowns it cost you 2 cards to stop a turn, and pendulums are really resilent.

Making the example of Harpies against Pendulums is a bit convinient since that is close to counterteaming, but aside that everyone can win with at least a competent deck against almost everything, the question is if it can do that on a consistent base and still get a good match-up with the rest of the stuff that runs around. At the time I ran around beating prime Six Samurai with Yusei.dek, that didn't make my deck meta viable in the slightest.

Apparently, his strategy is MSTing and destroying opponent's monsters.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 10:13 PM
Apparently, his strategy is MSTing and destroying opponent's monsters.

Non-sense, she clearly Dug up the Puzzle and uses it's dark Topdecking powers to win (Or she cheats)

SynjoDeonecros
3rd November 2015, 10:13 PM
Ugh, I'm starting to get Rita Repulsa'd from this debate. Can we please put an end to it and move on? This is doing nothing but derailing the conversation to the actual subject, what the next meta will be.

On that note, Where do you guys see Kozmo being in the tier list? I know it's popular, and it's got some wins underneath its bandoleer, but considering it's got a gross hitch in its strategy (ie. its reliance on banishing), and how easy it can be to stymie that with the right cards, will it be even a match for EMem?

Mystic TimeKeeper
3rd November 2015, 10:14 PM
Apparently, his strategy is MSTing and destroying opponent's monsters.

Then let's all build Mofiz's windy deck, 100% of not letting your opponent get scales (let's pretend Pendulum Call doesn't exist).

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 10:16 PM
Ugh, I'm starting to get Rita Repulsa'd from this debate. Can we please put an end to it and move on? This is doing nothing but derailing the conversation to the actual subject, what the next meta will be.

On that note, Where do you guys see Kozmo being in the tier list? I know it's popular, and it's got some wins underneath its bandoleer, but considering it's got a gross hitch in its strategy (ie. its reliance on banishing), and how easy it can be to stymie that with the right cards, will it be even a match for EMem?

Lol, no. Debates here don't stop til an Admin says so or someone quits after being proven wrong/an idiot.

Wasn't that answered already?
The current one was gutted to make room for the Clown Overlords.

as for Kozmo. Dark Destroyer was $80 last I checked for a reason, now why do you think that is?
EDIT, as expected it went up. to $130.

- - - Updated - - -


Then let's all build Mofiz's windy deck, 100% of not letting your opponent get scales (let's pretend Pendulum Call doesn't exist).

*Adds Pendulum Impenatrable

Come at my boys

Mystic TimeKeeper
3rd November 2015, 10:19 PM
I say that in the future Kozmo's worst enemy will be Super Quantum Mecha stuff, those guys are really pushing Teleport too far, but that depends on when Konami will make his move with the banlist.

seppee
3rd November 2015, 10:21 PM
I say that in the future Kozmo's worst enemy will be Super Quantum Mecha stuff, those guys are really pushing Teleport too far, but that depends on when Konami will make his move with the banlist.

I agree man.

Pendulum
3rd November 2015, 10:22 PM
Non-sense, she clearly Dug up the Puzzle and uses it's dark Topdecking powers to win (Or she cheats)

That or he/she stole Yuma's pendent and creates MSTs in the middle of a duel.

Pendulum
3rd November 2015, 10:26 PM
Then let's all build Mofiz's windy deck, 100% of not letting your opponent get scales (let's pretend Pendulum Call doesn't exist).

I'm actually leaning towards to think that Momma_sophie's deck is like that but with some harpies.

Pendulum
3rd November 2015, 10:31 PM
Lol, no. Debates here don't stop til an Admin says so or someone quits after being proven wrong/an idiot.

You bet. Though, I think we already proven that, so...

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 10:32 PM
I'm actually leaning towards to think that Momma_sophie's deck is like that but with some harpies.

And all she has to do is explain how she constantly and consistently has backrow removal available, Instantly making us all look stupid and everything we know of accepted deckbuilding theory would be overturned

but apparently we would steal these ideas that elluded the entire player base up til now, so she won't do that

Mystic TimeKeeper
3rd November 2015, 10:40 PM
And all she has to do is explain how she constantly and consistently has backrow removal available, Instantly making us all look stupid and everything we know of accepted deckbuilding theory would be overturned

but apparently we would steal these ideas that elluded the entire player base up til now, so she won't do that

He plays Harpies, to kill backrow you need a Normal Summon and the field, which is searchable by an Harpie that is searchable in return, and PoD is an option and I don't even know. It is reliable to be honest.

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 10:43 PM
...Well...
No, I'm not trying to steal your deck and your... Ideas.
And don't worry, your words don't offend me.

And now it's my time to say "don't take offense".
So, you always have a card to discard for Twin Twister?.. I mean one that's worth discarding. I just can't believe that.
I just can't understand how you can say those things. You mean that you always have an out for everything? Always? That's kinda hard to believe.
I just can't believe you have a deck that can answer to every threat anytime.
Even if you have 3 Upstarts, 3 Duality, 3 Jar of Greed, even 3 Reckless Greed? Or do you still use Pot of Greed? Harpies do have Hysteric Sign, but even so. I think it's just impossible to have a perfect deck. Even Clowns have flaws. I mean, they could open with 1 MST, 2 Wavering Eyes and 2 monsters that can't SS themselves. And you're here saying your deck has an MST all the time, ready to be used that will plus you? Again, kinda hard to believe.
Have you ever faced top tier decks? Have you played lately?
You sure have a good theory, though. Theory being the keyword.

I never even used the word "always." So I literally cannot address those statements where you claim I did.

Why are you insulting me? You're insulting me by assuming I'm some "n00b" that doesn't know what a Forbidden List is. I also even said that my statements were theoretical, while also maintaining the point that i have high confidence in what I say and have said thus far. I personally do not mind you not seeing or wanting to see my view on this issue with the community.

I never said my deck had that, because:
1. I don't even run MST.
2. I don't use words like "all" and "always."

Yes, I have. I went to the YCS in Greenville last month. I won 3/6 games ( 3 Wins, 3 Losses) with my Harpie/hybrid deck mixed with Shaddolls. I only lost to Burning Abyss twice, and some Igknight lockdown deck that felled me due to what seems to be you guys' problem: chance (before you try and jump on this, I'll let you know that I run a totally different deck now -- yet even then, I found whatever I needed when I needed it. Otherwise I wouldn't have won or did as well). But the difference is that I ran a 60-card deck. 60 cards. The 1st BA player only own because of End Of Match Procedure. I literally had six cards in my hand, A Shaddoll Winda on the field backed up with El Shaddoll Fusion. I had the resources. He just burned me with Barbar. I fundamentally won that one, yet rules beat me. We never made it past Round 1. That's how good my deck was. The second BA player tried Majesty's fiend against me: a GREAT answer to my Effect-heavy deck. Yet, I answered it. I lost, yet again I had resources for days. He just stalled. I ate through Vanities. Stomped Floodgates. No, my deck is NOT perfect. DUH. Yet one cannot deny that it was pretty f**kin' good.

So Construct got hit, and everything changed. Now I have gone back to pure Harpies (I competitively ran them back then, before Shaddolls and ran train with a certain monster that literally even 'Tellarknights could not get over). Except this time, I don't run that monster. This is surprisingly a lot faster.

So... there you go.

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 10:46 PM
He plays Harpies, to kill backrow you need a Normal Summon and the field, which is searchable by an Harpie that is searchable in return, and PoD is an option and I don't even know. It is reliable to be honest.

Yeah I know Harpies have some very effective built in Backrow hate, along with rank 4. plus the usual Artifact shenanigians mean it has a nice matchup against Pendulums

I kinda figured that one out already

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 10:49 PM
That's the point. I did beat them too. And now beat a consistent build with someone who actually plays intelligently. The fact that your Tier 4 Decks (see the last 100 Tournaments) can't hold a candle is more than proof enough. If they would be so easy to beat, some Harpie Deck would play OCG now. I can guarantee you why they would lose Match 1.

Dude, forget Tiers. They literally don't mean anything. The reason why YuGiOh Wikia took it down is literally because of what you just did; "Tier List is god." No, Tier List is perspective and unreliable. No. You cannot compare OCG to TCG. You literally cannot. So I end my post here.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


"Wow, an argument, better stay away!" said no one ever.

To all the people that say "Got a problem? main more counters" can I remember that you still have a deck with a strategy and you may want to draw your key pieces and with every problem solver you put in it's a card less that gets your deck running? There were too many times where I actually drew the counters to things then I lost because I couldn't get things going, especially against today's decks that can outlast you since the times of one for a trap or 2 for a trap are over, if you take Clowns it cost you 2 cards to stop a turn, and pendulums are really resilent.

Making the example of Harpies against Pendulums is a bit convinient since that is close to counterteaming, but aside that everyone can win with at least a competent deck against almost everything, the question is if it can do that on a consistent base and still get a good match-up with the rest of the stuff that runs around. At the time I ran around beating prime Six Samurai with Yusei.dek, that didn't make my deck meta viable in the slightest.

And to point an important thing, my friend's HERO is extremely consistent, but he had problem beating Necloth even with 1st turn Dark Law guaranteed, what do you think the reason is? I say that for every card he spent into consistence he lost protections for Law, but to up the trap count you would have to reduce your chances of 1st turn Dark Law, it's that simple of a trade-off.

Well, forgive me for happening to run the deck that I made an example of. Believe it or not, somehow some Harpie players cannot defeat Pendulums deck of ANY kind. What. Because that possibility exists, I went ahead and used my deck as an example.

Everything else you said virtually ties in with what I'm debating: Ratios and Synergy. Thus, I will not say more.

--Sophie.

Mofiz
3rd November 2015, 10:51 PM
Dude, forget Tiers. They literally don't mean anything. The reason why YuGiOh Wikia took it down is literally because of what you just did; "Tier List is god." No, Tier List is perspective and unreliable. No. You cannot compare OCG to TCG. You literally cannot. So I end my post here.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -



Well, forgive me for happening to run the deck that I made an example of. Believe it or not, somehow some Harpie players cannot defeat Pendulums deck of ANY kind. What. Because that possibility exists, I went ahead and used my deck as an example.

Everything else you said virtually ties in with what I'm debating: Ratios and Synergy. Thus, I will not say more.

--Sophie.

I love how people say, you can't compare OCG to TCG as an answer to EVERYTHING. They have even more backrow hate there so they should have it easier to kill of scales, which won't work. Even without Shock, The current Ems are disgusting. What do you wanna do, kill off a Flame Mascot Scale? lol

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 10:52 PM
Based upon what I have said?

Quote the exact (or at least close enough) words of me saying: "MST solves everything." Or, "Break scales with MST." I'm sure I mentioned Twister, MST, Parallel Twister, (and now Night Beam and Galaxy Cyclone) and etc.

And even if that were my strategy...

...as long as it works.

--Sophie.

Mystic TimeKeeper
3rd November 2015, 10:52 PM
Dude, forget Tiers. They literally don't mean anything. The reason why YuGiOh Wikia took it down is literally because of what you just did; "Tier List is god." No, Tier List is perspective and unreliable. No. You cannot compare OCG to TCG. You literally cannot. So I end my post here.

--Sophie.

As far as I know Tier is pure statistics, it shows only the percentual of played decks, so it is something objective.
I agree that tier list gets demonized in some way, but having more than 60% of the same deck around it is a strong indicator

And yes, you can compare TCG and OCG since they are the same game at their core, you can even confront past and present metas, it's just a matter of the kind of comparison you want to make, statistic is so flexible you could actually compare different games to an extent so I can't see the problem in confronting sides of the same game.

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 10:57 PM
And all she has to do is explain how she constantly and consistently has backrow removal available, Instantly making us all look stupid and everything we know of accepted deckbuilding theory would be overturned

but apparently we would steal these ideas that elluded the entire player base up til now, so she won't do that

That's the problem: You think that my intention is to make you all look stupid! I'm actually doing my best to befriend you all!

...I'm sure I did say that someone would steal my ideas. I'm also sure that did I NOT say that specific people would take my strategy.
I am justified in my belief that it'd happen because of the simple existence of the phrase: "Cookie-Cutter decks" that I actually have seen this community throw down once or twice in a conversation.

Soo...

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 10:59 PM
That's the problem: You think that my intention is to make you all look stupid! I'm actually doing my best to befriend you all!

...I'm sure I did say that someone would steal my ideas. I'm also sure that did I NOT say that specific people would take my strategy.
I am justified in my belief that it'd happen because of the simple existence of the phrase: "Cookie-Cutter decks" that I actually have seen this community throw down once or twice in a conversation.

Soo...

--Sophie.


Yeah meant to ask

what the hell would make you think people here would steal your ideas...I honestly found that to be incredibly insulting since that came out of no where
Admitting you netdeck makes EVERYONE hate you

and less "make us look stupid", more "It would have ended this a LONG time ago"

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 11:01 PM
Yeah I know Harpies have some very effective built in Backrow hate, along with rank 4. plus the usual Artifact shenanigians mean it has a nice matchup against Pendulums

I kinda figured that one out already

Sounds to me like you're now dismissing my arguments as "biased." To further insult my intelligence, you even called out deck combos that I don't even run.
Seriously, everyone. Just admit that you're at a loss as to what my strategy is, accept that you'll never see it, and come up with your own. Focus on you. Not me.

I'm genuinely looking to assist everyone. Yet, you don't seem to want it. Instead, you want to feel antagonized and would rather just make fun of me instead of valuing my input. And you know what? That's okay.

I did my part.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah meant to ask

what the hell would make you think people here would steal your ideas...I honestly found that to be incredibly insulting since that came out of no where
Admitting you netdeck makes EVERYONE hate you

and less "make us look stupid", more "It would have ended this a LONG time ago"

If it doesn't apply to you...

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 11:01 PM
I never gave a damn what your strategy was, I don't even know when that became the damn topic....

And how the hell are you trying to assist us, this is just arguing

If you have points to make, Prove your damn points instead of talking about them

as is this amounts to "I have done it and you will never guess how"

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 11:04 PM
I love how people say, you can't compare OCG to TCG as an answer to EVERYTHING. They have even more backrow hate there so they should have it easier to kill of scales, which won't work. Even without Shock, The current Ems are disgusting. What do you wanna do, kill off a Flame Mascot Scale? lol

And again, people assuming that when I say "break the scales" that translates to "destroy/MST" it.

No, people. NO. Get your heads out of the cynical tunnel.

...Is what I would have ended with if I were still wanting to help everyone. You made your point, people. You don't want my suggestions. I get it.

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 11:07 PM
You haven't given any good suggestions, you just said "Dust tornado Etc are things"

and yes, "Break" typically means "Destroy" in this game

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 11:08 PM
I never gave a damn what your strategy was, I don't even know when that became the damn topic....

And how the hell are you trying to assist us, this is just arguing

If you have points to make, Prove your damn points instead of talking about them

as is this amounts to "I have done it and you will never guess how"

I can't. I literally can't! I just explained how I did in a YCS and still, people don't get me. What you're failing to grasp is that I suggested these things in response to people complaining about some "EMem" crap that I'm not really bothered by. I know that even Harpies would have an issue with it... typically. I am not typical, and my message -- for the last 80 posts -- has been:

"You don't have to be, either."

Yet, you CHOOSE to believe that my words aren't what they are (despite them being typed on screen for you to read) and that I have nothing to prove to you. If you truly wanted to beat this monstrosity, you'd try out any suggetions, despite me "proving" them. And that in itself is why I won't and don't because people don't get proactive. Believe or don't. I could easily state my point (which I have), and still people will deny it because they don't want to believe. Not because I didn't prove anything. Because you refuse to see it. The proof is in you, not me.

--Sophie.

Mystic TimeKeeper
3rd November 2015, 11:11 PM
Well, at this point the question becames "How's your match-up with Non-Pendulum decks?" since as much as I can see the advantage you got It feels like you need to overcommit a bit to reliably win against those (and I mained Fairy Winds everywhere so I know what it means).

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 11:11 PM
You haven't given any good suggestions, you just said "Dust tornado Etc are things"

and yes, "Break" typically means "Destroy" in this game

I just cannot get through to you can I? Breaking a scale does not encompass destruction; it encompasses to concept of literally "destroying a link" in this context. The link needs to die, not necessarily the cards! You're wanting me to lay everything out for you and I'm not going to. If you want to find cards that move cards to other places, maybe go to YGOPro or DEVPro and type "bottom of the deck"/"top of the deck"/"banish"/"return to the hand"/etc.

There's a huge Wikia, for crying out loud! Every single card in the game available for your perusal and you cannot figure out your own way through this? READ.

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 11:17 PM
I just cannot get through to you can I? Breaking a scale does not encompass destruction; it encompasses to concept of literally "destroying a link" in this context. The link needs to die, not necessarily the cards! You're wanting me to lay everything out for you and I'm not going to. If you want to find cards that move cards to other places, maybe go to YGOPro or DEVPro and type "bottom of the deck"/"top of the deck"/"banish"/"return to the hand"/etc.

There's a huge Wikia, for crying out loud! Every single card in the game available for your perusal and you cannot figure out your own way through this? READ.

--Sophie.

In this game, ever since Breaker the magical Warrior, the Term "Break" has meant "Destroy". Usually Spells/Traps.
On said Wikia, Search "Break" and read the last sentence.

Ignoring that detail, your suggestion still amounts to "Run more Removal", which is still a horrible suggestion. My deck only has so much space and most people don't run 60 card decks to compensate for that

And did you actually just suggest we bounce Scales...

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 11:24 PM
Well, at this point the question becames "How's your match-up with Non-Pendulum decks?" since as much as I can see the advantage you got It feels like you need to overcommit a bit to reliably win against those (and I mained Fairy Winds everywhere so I know what it means).

I'll put this back on topic:

So... Considering that EmEM and Anything running P.Call is apparently unbeatable, I'd say we're all doomed!

Except, I don't believe any of that, which is why I'm even arguing.

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 11:26 PM
...Who said EmEM was unbeatable?
Overpowered yes, Unbeatable no

anyone saying that needs to be smacked

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 11:29 PM
In this game, ever since Breaker the magical Warrior, the Term "Break" has meant "Destroy". Usually Spells/Traps.
On said Wikia, Search "Break" and read the last sentence.

Ignoring that detail, your suggestion still amounts to "Run more Removal", which is still a horrible suggestion. My deck only has so much space and most people don't run 60 card decks to compensate for that

And did you actually just suggest we bounce Scales...

Look at what you just did. You chose not to believe that I know what I'm talking about, and despite my suggestions and experience, you shun me. So, what good what it do to buy you a sofa when you won't even step foot into the new house?

(By the way, yeah. Bounce scales... THEN make them discard them in a Dark World/Shaddoll/other decks that pluses off of discards. You didn't even wait to hear me out.)

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


...Who said EmEM was unbeatable?
Overpowered yes, Unbeatable no

anyone saying that needs to be smacked

Well, here's your paddle. Get going.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, everyone! Sorry. I noticed that someone asked a while back for the debate to stop (even though it's healthy) and didn't, so sorry.

Go back to your regular scheduled programming of... "Meta Predictions for late 2015-2016!"
Brought to you by:

"Ko-money! Because we care about YOU!"

--Sophie.

SynjoDeonecros
3rd November 2015, 11:29 PM
Well, I'm being ignored, here, so if it seems like only a mod can put an end to this pointless bickering, that's what shall happen.

Mystic TimeKeeper
3rd November 2015, 11:30 PM
I'll put this back on topic:

So... Considering that EmEM and Anything running P.Call is apparently unbeatable, I'd say we're all doomed!

Except, I don't believe any of that, which is why I'm even arguing.

--Sophie.

I thought it was a legit question, since usually Harpies are only as strong as their Extra if you commit resources to deal with Pendulum you may lose on other stuff, I remember Shaddoll being not so easy thanks to Artifacts making me think twice about spamming the field spell.

Basically I feel Harpies are stronger against backrow reliant decks, have a problem against artifacts and have trouble dealing with things that drop stronger thing or those that drop them faster.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 11:36 PM
Look at what you just did. You chose not to believe that I know what I'm talking about, and despite my suggestions and experience, you shun me. So, what good what it do to buy you a sofa when you won't even step foot into the new house?

(By the way, yeah. Bounce scales... THEN make them discard them in a Dark World/Shaddoll/other decks that pluses off of discards. You didn't even wait to hear me out.)

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -



Well, here's your paddle. Get going.

--Sophie.


Ughhhh...
I don't shun you (though I'm Getting close....) I do not believe you because your suggestions are demonstrably wrong. "Run More Counter" is not a solution to everything.

Also What the hell is there to wait for, if you want to follow up on something, SAY IT WITH THE DAMN SUGGESTION.
Bouncing Scales is stupid, no question. Suggesting a discard afterwords makes the idea less stupid, so why not mention that all important detail to begin with....

Also, making opponent Discard is usually a horrible Idea
"Lol, thanks for sending a Damajugg to my grave, free search next turn"

And No one said EmEM is invincible, we said "MSTing (Sorry "breaking") their scales" is not a viable enough solution to kill them as they can just replace them whenever
and any destructive breaking will just get you laughed at when Flame mascot is involed

All assuming they don't Chain Wavering Gaze of course

- - - Updated - - -


Well, I'm being ignored, here, so if it seems like only a mod can put an end to this pointless bickering, that's what shall happen.

I'm not ignoring you

Momma_Sophie
3rd November 2015, 11:42 PM
I thought it was a legit question, since usually Harpies are only as strong as their Extra if you commit resources to deal with Pendulum you may lose on other stuff, I remember Shaddoll being not so easy thanks to Artifacts making me think twice about spamming the field spell.

Basically I feel Harpies are stronger against backrow reliant decks, have a problem against artifacts and have trouble dealing with things that drop stronger thing or those that drop them faster.

Oh, my bad. I thought you wanted me to help put things on track.

Well. My answer to that was Shaddoll. Considering how Construct was an answer to anything summoned by a Special Summon, I usually had the Harpies clear the way for her appearance.

Now... I would say that my strategy leans more towards "hitting the end game." I use traps that can go off anytime (like Compulsory) and I pay close attention to what's going on over yonder. I use my resources extremely carefully. The Harpies will give me what I need; I just need to learn what to use it on. XYZs, Synchros, and Rituals all cost the player minus in order to be summoned. I play on that and basically render it all worthless through my traps. I don't fear Royal Decree because... Harpies. I once took an Infernoid player down with literally just a couple Harpie Harpists being reused all game. I usually don't use anything in my Extra deck until I need to ensure that a monster will go down.

If somehow a monster DOES manage to make it through my best efforts, I fall back and regroup while Pet Phantasmal guards me and my future Harpies. Even the Qli can't beat Pet Phan. I'm almost always waiting to see Skill Drain and Re-Qliate/Lose 1 Turn with them. If they don't use them, I open the Gates of Harpie Hell and summon all of the extra deck.

...So, that's generally how I play now. If I can't prevent it, hide. Then gather power and explode. It works because I have a group of buddies that I test against and only 'Tellarknights rival me. Come to think of it... I play just like them!

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, I'm being ignored, here, so if it seems like only a mod can put an end to this pointless bickering, that's what shall happen.

Hilariously enough, you posted that after my apology for ignoring you.

- - - Updated - - -


Ughhhh...
I don't shun you (though I'm Getting close....) I do not believe you because your suggestions are demonstrably wrong. "Run More Counter" is not a solution to everything.

Also What the hell is there to wait for, if you want to follow up on something, SAY IT WITH THE DAMN SUGGESTION.
Bouncing Scales is stupid, no question. Suggesting a discard afterwords makes the idea less stupid, so why not mention that all important detail to begin with....

Also, making opponent Discard is usually a horrible Idea
"Lol, thanks for sending a Damajugg to my grave, free search next turn"

And No one said EmEM is invincible, we said "MSTing (Sorry "breaking") their scales" is not a viable enough solution to kill them as they can just replace them whenever
and any destructive breaking will just get you laughed at when Flame mascot is involed

All assuming they don't Chain Wavering Gaze of course

- - - Updated - - -



I'm not ignoring you

That plays into my "Do I have to explain EVERYTHING?" post a while back...

...seriously, do I? I genuinely thought you guys were intelligent enough to get the gist so I could save myself some typing. My posts in most cases would have been so much longer.

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 11:52 PM
That plays into my "Do I have to explain EVERYTHING?" post a while back...

...seriously, do I? I genuinely thought you guys were intelligent enough to get the gist so I could save myself some typing. My posts in most cases would have been so much longer.

Evidently, that just lead to a shitload of miscomunication. not to mention I have asked for you to explain your reasoning since this has apparently elluded everyone thus far. instead you played victim and went on a few times about how we are ignoring your input and how I'm shunning you

Dread Kaiser
3rd November 2015, 11:55 PM
Meanwhile, I have an MMO raid to get to so I'm done with this for the next hour or so

MR_Imir
3rd November 2015, 11:59 PM
Those who complain don't get far in their yugioh career *drops the mic* *walks away*

Mofiz
4th November 2015, 07:55 AM
And again, people assuming that when I say "break the scales" that translates to "destroy/MST" it.

No, people. NO. Get your heads out of the cynical tunnel.

...Is what I would have ended with if I were still wanting to help everyone. You made your point, people. You don't want my suggestions. I get it.

--Sophie.

Your first comment and I quote: "Just. MST. the Scales."
Further more, you would have to have use quick banishing/shuffling effects to "break the scales" so they cant Pendulum. Are you running Magnas or Urgent Ritual Formula into Trishula or what the fuck are you talking about. If it's so easy to not let people Pendulum Summon, why does the OCG (who has waay more backrow hate than us right now, "Those are completely different formats" isn't an argument, their format can hate Scales even more, you are shooting yourself in the knee) have so much problem playing them off.

Indytotof
4th November 2015, 08:05 AM
Castel. I never said that the scales had to destroyed, nor targeted (Seitsemas).

Nothing needs to happen to Apex Avian

Sky Arc. Castel will do nothing.

Your point = invalid

Apex Avian either get errated to be Pendulum incompatible or die in a fire in the Forbidden list forever.

Pendulum
4th November 2015, 09:08 AM
I never even used the word "always." So I literally cannot address those statements where you claim I did.

Why are you insulting me? You're insulting me by assuming I'm some "n00b" that doesn't know what a Forbidden List is. I also even said that my statements were theoretical, while also maintaining the point that i have high confidence in what I say and have said thus far. I personally do not mind you not seeing or wanting to see my view on this issue with the community.

I never said my deck had that, because:
1. I don't even run MST.
2. I don't use words like "all" and "always."

Yes, I have. I went to the YCS in Greenville last month. I won 3/6 games ( 3 Wins, 3 Losses) with my Harpie/hybrid deck mixed with Shaddolls. I only lost to Burning Abyss twice, and some Igknight lockdown deck that felled me due to what seems to be you guys' problem: chance (before you try and jump on this, I'll let you know that I run a totally different deck now -- yet even then, I found whatever I needed when I needed it. Otherwise I wouldn't have won or did as well). But the difference is that I ran a 60-card deck. 60 cards. The 1st BA player only own because of End Of Match Procedure. I literally had six cards in my hand, A Shaddoll Winda on the field backed up with El Shaddoll Fusion. I had the resources. He just burned me with Barbar. I fundamentally won that one, yet rules beat me. We never made it past Round 1. That's how good my deck was. The second BA player tried Majesty's fiend against me: a GREAT answer to my Effect-heavy deck. Yet, I answered it. I lost, yet again I had resources for days. He just stalled. I ate through Vanities. Stomped Floodgates. No, my deck is NOT perfect. DUH. Yet one cannot deny that it was pretty f**kin' good.

So Construct got hit, and everything changed. Now I have gone back to pure Harpies (I competitively ran them back then, before Shaddolls and ran train with a certain monster that literally even 'Tellarknights could not get over). Except this time, I don't run that monster. This is surprisingly a lot faster.

So... there you go.

--Sophie.

First, I didn't want to insult you. It was not meant that way. Nevertheless, I'm sorry. But you saying we could potentially steal your ideas can be insultuous to us too. Think about that.
Second, "yet even then, I found whatever I needed when I needed it". So, you always find what you need when you need, and you always did.
Third... Well, nothing. Mofiz, Dread and Timekeeper already said everything and I share from their opinions. There's no need for me to relight this discussion.
Let's do the favour to SynjoDeonecros and not continue with this.

Momma_Sophie
4th November 2015, 02:22 PM
Your first comment and I quote: "Just. MST. the Scales."
Further more, you would have to have use quick banishing/shuffling effects to "break the scales" so they cant Pendulum. Are you running Magnas or Urgent Ritual Formula into Trishula or what the fuck are you talking about. If it's so easy to not let people Pendulum Summon, why does the OCG (who has waay more backrow hate than us right now, "Those are completely different formats" isn't an argument, their format can hate Scales even more, you are shooting yourself in the knee) have so much problem playing them off.

I did say that. I and you and everyone else cannot deny that MST-ing scales is not a bad idea. I did NOT say, "Just. MST. the Scales. It's the best way!" And that is where everyone starting assuming that that is how I think, and it's not.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


Sky Arc. Castel will do nothing.

Your point = invalid

Apex Avian either get errated to be Pendulum incompatible or die in a fire in the Forbidden list forever.

Because no one would think first to remove the Field Spell.

--Sophie.

Momma_Sophie
4th November 2015, 02:28 PM
First, I didn't want to insult you. It was not meant that way. Nevertheless, I'm sorry. But you saying we could potentially steal your ideas can be insultuous to us too. Think about that.
Second, "yet even then, I found whatever I needed when I needed it". So, you always find what you need when you need, and you always did.
Third... Well, nothing. Mofiz, Dread and Timekeeper already said everything and I share from their opinions. There's no need for me to relight this discussion.
Let's do the favour to SynjoDeonecros and not continue with this.

That last statement should've been your first; it makes no sense to state your points, and then say, "but don't reply to me though!" despite the fact that you asked me questions to answer.

So, I'm going to answer them.

Yeah, I know people can get offended and I also know that people can choose to get offended. There's a famous quote: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." I consented to letting you make me feel inferior by getting offended by your statements of accusation of me using Pot of Greed. My fault. Not yours. Same can be applied to everyone else: take responsibility.

Next, yes I did! I actually got to whatever I needed, when I needed it. I never said that what I thought I needed was what the situation actually called for. That fault in my playstyle costed me the game against that Igknight lockdown deck; I didn't actually need what I thought I needed.

Any more questions?

--Sophie.

Indytotof
4th November 2015, 04:12 PM
Because no one would think first to remove the Field Spell.

--Sophie.

Well, the only thing Castel can do... if Avian isn't out yet and if I can't have access in that particuliar moment to any MSTs/MST clones.

See ? Avian need to get out this game. He's not healthy anymore.

Momma_Sophie
4th November 2015, 04:17 PM
Well, the only thing Castel can do... if Avian isn't out yet and if I can't have access in that particuliar moment to any MSTs/MST clones.

See ? Avian need to get out this game. He's not healthy anymore.

You lost me there ^
You provided the "if," yet didn't give a "then."

--Sophie.

SynjoDeonecros
4th November 2015, 05:04 PM
Oh, god, are we still on this? Eurgh...

TheRamenNoodle
4th November 2015, 05:22 PM
A thread that can be put into the F/L section of pojo attracts the very same idiots that lurk in the F/L section of Pojo.

The moral of the story is to never post stuff like that here in the first place.

Mofiz
4th November 2015, 05:53 PM
I did say that. I and you and everyone else cannot deny that MST-ing scales is not a bad idea. I did NOT say, "Just. MST. the Scales. It's the best way!" And that is where everyone starting assuming that that is how I think, and it's not.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -



Because no one would think first to remove the Field Spell.

--Sophie.

You are not really justifying anything. You stated the obvious, Using MST. You think we don't know how to using motherfucking MST? We stated the whole time why it's not good. a card that isn't searchable, against Pendulum Decks that have massive Scales anyway, so in the end you will just disadvantage after all
. And I still stated a lot more, that even the format with stupidly large amount of S/T hate can't possibly prevent Pendulum Summon, simply because all the good Pendulum Decks are consistent as fuck, one can't have that much backrow hate face-down or even in hand. If someone manages to lose because he couldn't set his Scale, he is simply a scrub. Especially on opponents turns, Twin Twister, MST, Fairy Wind. So what? You will at best trigger Mascot or Ariadne or will force him to activate his Eyed earlier. Pendulums aren't dead against backrow hate, only very bad ones. Newbie opponents are not the scale to measure a deck.

Sotavento
4th November 2015, 10:51 PM
For those who don't want to waste 15 minutes of their time reading non-sense countering shit.


TL;DR Just because you can counter something it doesn't mean you will always be able to.

Momma_Sophie
4th November 2015, 11:25 PM
You are not really justifying anything. You stated the obvious, Using MST. You think we don't know how to using motherfucking MST? We stated the whole time why it's not good. a card that isn't searchable, against Pendulum Decks that have massive Scales anyway, so in the end you will just disadvantage after all
. And I still stated a lot more, that even the format with stupidly large amount of S/T hate can't possibly prevent Pendulum Summon, simply because all the good Pendulum Decks are consistent as fuck, one can't have that much backrow hate face-down or even in hand. If someone manages to lose because he couldn't set his Scale, he is simply a scrub. Especially on opponents turns, Twin Twister, MST, Fairy Wind. So what? You will at best trigger Mascot or Ariadne or will force him to activate his Eyed earlier. Pendulums aren't dead against backrow hate, only very bad ones. Newbie opponents are not the scale to measure a deck.

Thanks for assuming (and calling) my opponents "noobs." As of matter of fact, they aren't.

And you know what? I noticed that you all always say that you "cannot always find the card you need when you need it," yet every time you argue against me, you make the argument pose a situation where the opponent seems to ALWAYS have an answer to YOUR cards. So, you say that I/you/others cannot always find the cards I need when I need them? If that's the case, then how is it that your opponent always seems to? Based on your perspectives and arguments against me: either I'm telling the truth about being able to easily counter them and you're telling the truth about them always having an out (despite my best efforts), or we're both/all lying.

Choose one outcome for your arguments, or accept my statements to have a possibility of reality.

--Sophie.

Momma_Sophie
4th November 2015, 11:30 PM
For those who don't want to waste 15 minutes of their time reading non-sense countering shit.


TL;DR Just because you can counter something it doesn't mean you will always be able to.

Never said I was. Yet, somehow the probability is high for me. I just explained how my last deck's potential played out against decks like those in a long story about my YCS experience. This current deck is just a new variant and plays just as aggressively. Again, believe me or don't; the choice(s) is yours.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


Oh, god, are we still on this? Eurgh...

Hi, how are you? What do you think the next "meta(?)" will be?

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


A thread that can be put into the F/L section of pojo attracts the very same idiots that lurk in the F/L section of Pojo.

The moral of the story is to never post stuff like that here in the first place.

What's "F/L?"

--Sophie.

MR_Imir
4th November 2015, 11:39 PM
You are not really justifying anything. You stated the obvious, Using MST. You think we don't know how to using motherfucking MST? We stated the whole time why it's not good. a card that isn't searchable, against Pendulum Decks that have massive Scales anyway, so in the end you will just disadvantage after all
. And I still stated a lot more, that even the format with stupidly large amount of S/T hate can't possibly prevent Pendulum Summon, simply because all the good Pendulum Decks are consistent as fuck, one can't have that much backrow hate face-down or even in hand. If someone manages to lose because he couldn't set his Scale, he is simply a scrub. Especially on opponents turns, Twin Twister, MST, Fairy Wind. So what? You will at best trigger Mascot or Ariadne or will force him to activate his Eyed earlier. Pendulums aren't dead against backrow hate, only very becad ones. Newbie opponents are not the scale to measure a deck.
You say Newbie opponents are not the scale to measure a deck to me you sound like the richy rich want a be pro duelist that run the same old meta deck that you can literally find on YouTube those type duelist make me sick and to be honest I have more respect for a newbie that than rich boy wanna be pro players. Me I pride myself on the fact that I worked hard to make a deck unique and virtually handle almost any problem including pendulums. I feel that if you are so confident in your skills you should put your money where your mouth is and make to worlds.

Pendulum
5th November 2015, 12:03 AM
You say Newbie opponents are not the scale to measure a deck to me you sound like the richy rich want a be pro duelist that run the same old meta deck that you can literally find on YouTube those type duelist make me sick and to be honest I have more respect for a newbie that than rich boy wanna be pro players. Me I pride myself on the fact that I worked hard to make a deck unique and virtually handle almost any problem including pendulums. I feel that if you are so confident in your skills you should put your money where your mouth is and make to worlds.

I feel sorry for you...
You should hold your tongue. You shouldn't speak about things you don't know.

DelCtrl
5th November 2015, 12:34 AM
Staying on topic, I feel that EmEM won't be tier 0 here on TCG, not only because it lacks Shock, but because of Kozmos. Right now they aren't that threatening to the pendulum deck of doom, but Konami seems to want it to be more relevant and I'm waiting for them to get some way to deal with pendulum spam. But this is just conjecture, there aren't facts to support my claim. As of now, the only thing we know for sure about our next meta is that EmEM is coming, and we need to brace ourselves.

As a side note:

You say Newbie opponents are not the scale to measure a deck to me you sound like the richy rich want a be pro duelist that run the same old meta deck that you can literally find on YouTube those type duelist make me sick and to be honest I have more respect for a newbie that than rich boy wanna be pro players. Me I pride myself on the fact that I worked hard to make a deck unique and virtually handle almost any problem including pendulums. I feel that if you are so confident in your skills you should put your money where your mouth is and make to worlds.

I guess you don't know Mofiz then? I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have said that.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 12:50 AM
So I go ot class, come back, find 3 different PMs basically asking WTH is going on here

Lessee
Sophie has yet to "Explain Everything", probably because there is nothing to explain and is now backing herself into a corner with "I didn't say X"
BTW "F/L" means Forbidden/Limited, IE the banlist

Synjo still wants the topic to go back
Protip, it won't. There is really only 1 prediction that can happen, I covered it. this place is now Pojo. Do yourself a favor and don't come back to this thread if you expect the Original topic to continue

Now some guy comes in and clearly has no clue who he is talking to, pity

Ugh, Clowns don't get released til Friday and yet the Circus is already here

Pendulum
5th November 2015, 12:53 AM
So I go ot class, come back, find 3 different PMs basically asking WTH is going on here

Lessee
Sophie has yet to "Explain Everything", probably because there is nothing to explain and is now backing herself into a corner with "I didn't say X"
BTW "F/L" means Forbidden/Limited, IE the banlist

Synjo still wants the topic to go back
Protip, it won't. There is really only 1 prediction that can happen, I covered it. this place is now Pojo. Do yourself a favor and don't come back to this thread if you expect the Original topic to continue

Now some guy comes in and clearly has no clue who he is talking to, pity

Ugh, Clowns don't get released til Friday and yet the Circus is already here

I'm just so curious to see Mofiz's reaction to this.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 12:56 AM
Given what happened last time, I hope he won't

Everyone Ignored the guy the first time he posted, we should continue this

Pendulum
5th November 2015, 01:01 AM
Given what happened last time, I hope he won't

Everyone Ignored the guy the first time he posted, we should continue this

I agree, but knowing Mofiz...
And that guy is kinda asking for it.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 01:09 AM
I agree, but knowing Mofiz...
And that guy is kinda asking for it.

Stupidity is asking for it
Ignorance is not.

now if he CONTINUES being Ignorant, then he is asking for it

ARKhaven
5th November 2015, 02:14 AM
Thanks for assuming (and calling) my opponents "noobs." As of matter of fact, they aren't.

And you know what? I noticed that you all always say that you "cannot always find the card you need when you need it," yet every time you argue against me, you make the argument pose a situation where the opponent seems to ALWAYS have an answer to YOUR cards. So, you say that I/you/others cannot always find the cards I need when I need them? If that's the case, then how is it that your opponent always seems to? Based on your perspectives and arguments against me: either I'm telling the truth about being able to easily counter them and you're telling the truth about them always having an out (despite my best efforts), or we're both/all lying.

Choose one outcome for your arguments, or accept my statements to have a possibility of reality.

--Sophie.

He already has stated before on how the opponent can go ham and screw over the other player :l

It's basically turn 1 Azzathoth-CyDra Infinity-Naturia Beast OR Shock Lock/Rafflesia, which happens VERY often.

There's also the fact that the engine is EXTREMELY consistent and fast. Must I go on as to how? I'm PRETTY sure you should be able to figure this out

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 03:06 AM
There's also the fact that the engine is EXTREMELY consistent and fast. Must I go on as to how? I'm PRETTY sure you should be able to figure this out

We wouldn't be here if that was the case...

ARKhaven
5th November 2015, 03:18 AM
We wouldn't be here if that was the case...

I mean, the deck has like what? 28 searchers? And if they brick, most of the cards in it are pretty nasty like fucking Solemn Notice to stall. Or open up Wavering Eyes to start the process for the pain train. If that isn't obvious, then I'm not sure on what else I can say to point it out.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 03:24 AM
Well she apparently expects us to destro- sorry "Break"* Their scales before they can summon Apex Avian with them (pendulum call is not a thing, I don't know what you are talking about). Just make sure your backrow hate outnumbers their pendulums...

*Break defined as: Destroy, bounce (then discard) spin or Banish....because she can apparently ALWAYS be able to do that, so we should too (as long as we don't steal her Ideas)

ARKhaven
5th November 2015, 03:33 AM
Well she apparently expects us to destro- sorry "Break"* Their scales before they can summon Apex Avian with them (pendulum call is not a thing, I don't know what you are talking about). Just make sure your backrow hate outnumbers their pendulums...

*Break defined as: Destroy, bounce (then discard) spin or Banish....because she can apparently ALWAYS be able to do that, so we should too (as long as we don't steal her Ideas)

As a player myself, I honestly see "Break" as in pop the ever living shit out of something/destroy it, but that's just me. Also, I need to check where the forum rules are in case I might've accidentally break one or two. Sorry Moderators in advance if any of my posts end up being improper.

And I'mma type out my thoughts out and double check it so I don't catch myself making a faux pas.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 03:40 AM
As a player myself, I honestly see "Break" as in pop the ever living shit out of something/destroy it, but that's just me. Also, I need to check where the forum rules are in case I might've accidentally break one or two. Sorry Moderators in advance if any of my posts end up being improper.

And I'mma type out my thoughts out and double check it so I don't catch myself making a faux pas.

Not just you, Ever since Breaker the Magical Warrior, "Break" has meant Destroy

this is the first time I have ever seen anyone use it to just mean "remove"

Also, you're fine.

Dyson Sphere
5th November 2015, 03:56 AM
hmmm what re really need to lock down those penduolums is an archetype that gets rid of all your opponents zones including pendulum

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 04:08 AM
hmmm what re really need to lock down those penduolums is an archetype that gets rid of all your opponents zones including pendulum

I heard you liek Solitaire....

more seriously, just the usual monster zone locks would suffice

Sotavento
5th November 2015, 04:12 AM
A Denko that prevents activation of Pendulum cards as long as you don't have Pendulum Cards in your zones.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 04:56 AM
A Denko that prevents activation of Pendulum cards as long as you don't have Pendulum Cards in your zones.

Errata Doomstar Magician to work during either turn, then pretend you meant it to work like that from the start

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 05:25 AM
Thanks for assuming (and calling) my opponents "noobs." As of matter of fact, they aren't.

And you know what? I noticed that you all always say that you "cannot always find the card you need when you need it," yet every time you argue against me, you make the argument pose a situation where the opponent seems to ALWAYS have an answer to YOUR cards. So, you say that I/you/others cannot always find the cards I need when I need them? If that's the case, then how is it that your opponent always seems to? Based on your perspectives and arguments against me: either I'm telling the truth about being able to easily counter them and you're telling the truth about them always having an out (despite my best efforts), or we're both/all lying.

Choose one outcome for your arguments, or accept my statements to have a possibility of reality.

--Sophie.

This is even more than just shooting yourself in the knee. First off, any consistent Pendulum Deck that can't get to summon because someone has a half field of backrow hate must be played by someone who has no clue of to correctly play it. Majes aren't reliant, Qlis were dead after a while anyway, Magicians have either too much Search, Call and/or too many Scales anyway and using S/T hate against Clowns is the most useless thing everyone could ever do at all. That's like using Discord against Xyz Decks. They don't even upuse their hand for several rounds of Xyz Summon.

And now to your bullshit argument of "how can my opponent always have his counters". You don't draw your fucking Extra Deck.........................
People only have to have their Materials ready on Decks only CONSIST of them. They are searchable, recycable, splashable, they can do everything with it.
When it comes to Trap Spamming: People run more generic Traps against everything monster related than backrow hate, even even if not. One Monster hating Trap like Solemn Notice does WAY more than a Twin Twister against a Set-up of Scales. If I talk about a Deck, it's a Deck that has consistent amount of searchers for it's own archtype. Let's say Clowns and Skullcrobat, half of the fucking Deck can go for it, Magicians have more direct searchers than even Nekroz and Majespectors are the most bullshitting searchers anyway. Get Raccoon to search Fox or Frog and get that Counter Trap directly from your Deck. And since their Deck IS ABOUT those cards, you shouldn't be surprised that they always get those.
If your Deck consists of constant and non-stopping Scale hate, you use my Wind Deck from above.

- - - Updated - - -


You say Newbie opponents are not the scale to measure a deck to me you sound like the richy rich want a be pro duelist that run the same old meta deck that you can literally find on YouTube those type duelist make me sick and to be honest I have more respect for a newbie that than rich boy wanna be pro players. Me I pride myself on the fact that I worked hard to make a deck unique and virtually handle almost any problem including pendulums. I feel that if you are so confident in your skills you should put your money where your mouth is and make to worlds.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You clearly are new.

Sanokal
5th November 2015, 05:35 AM
Forget being able to counter them, half the time (in OCG land) they'll just trot out their field on the first turn and leave you up a Creek without a paddle.

On the subject, which of the cards in that deck would need to be hit to make it any kind of fair?

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 05:44 AM
Forget being able to counter them, half the time (in OCG land) they'll just trot out their field on the first turn and leave you up a Creek without a paddle.

On the subject, which of the cards in that deck would need to be hit to make it any kind of fair?

But apparently we can main deck more counters, and that solves EVERYTHING....
I wonder if she clued in by now, the fact that everyone seems to be against her should raise a flag or 2

Depends on what we are talking about. IMO, Gaze and anything that searches scales, ESPECIALLY things like Qli scout that effectively complete scales on its own need to go to 1-0. Thats in general, in the case of clowns, Can't say without plain bias coming in and say "whole deck to 0"

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 05:55 AM
Forget being able to counter them, half the time (in OCG land) they'll just trot out their field on the first turn and leave you up a Creek without a paddle.

On the subject, which of the cards in that deck would need to be hit to make it any kind of fair?

Waverying Eyes banned (Having it already means, your opponent can give up), Flame Mascot or Juggler limited, Skullcrobat or Monkeyboard (both are way too much) gone. I would also recommend Luster Pendulum since it's atleast an immediete Plus of 1, and with the Dracoruler Spell, they even have more advantage now and it can be searched immedietly. Or we could take hits on the Rank 4 Toolbox but since that isn't going to happen...

Sanokal
5th November 2015, 06:04 AM
[QUOTE=Thats in general, in the case of clowns, Can't say without plain bias coming in and say "whole deck to 0"[/QUOTE]

If straight counters solved everything than my Evols would still be king. There is only so much of a degree. Admittedly, if there is any deck that can run sufficient S/T hate and remain cohesive, it's Harpies. The first turn thing is still gonna be a pain.

Why not? 0 might be too much, but they did it to 1 or 0 with Tele-DAD, or DAD Return or whichever one it was.

As for them in the TCG, they'll likely lack Pendulum Sorcerer for a while and we won't have Shock Master or Chain. That'll slow them to just using Mascot in combination with Luster, which is still very consistent, and neuter them to slightly less Xyz per turn, yes?

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 06:10 AM
Waverying Eyes banned (Having it already means, your opponent can give up), Flame Mascot or Juggler limited, Skullcrobat or Monkeyboard (both are way too much) gone. I would also recommend Luster Pendulum since it's atleast an immediete Plus of 1, and with the Dracoruler Spell, they even have more advantage now and it can be searched immedietly. Or we could take hits on the Rank 4 Toolbox but since that isn't going to happen...

In the OCG no, in the TCG they just killed the roach so anything is possible

Indytotof
5th November 2015, 08:23 AM
Forget being able to counter them, half the time (in OCG land) they'll just trot out their field on the first turn and leave you up a Creek without a paddle.

On the subject, which of the cards in that deck would need to be hit to make it any kind of fair?

Hit the things that make the deck consistant and cancerous:

Skullcrobat to 1
Monkeyboard to 1
Pendulum Call to 1
Wavering Eyes to either 1 or 0
Every Performage in existence (except the Xyz) to either 1 or 0 (more likely 1 for the vast majority).
Shockmaster to 0
Rafflesia to 0
Every Majespecters (either monsters and S/T) in existence to 0
Avian to 0

The EMEm deck will be still consistent, but way more manageable to beat.

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 01:46 PM
Hit the things that make the deck consistant and cancerous:

Skullcrobat to 1
Monkeyboard to 1
Pendulum Call to 1
Wavering Eyes to either 1 or 0
Every Performage in existence (except the Xyz) to either 1 or 0 (more likely 1 for the vast majority).
Shockmaster to 0
Rafflesia to 0
Every Majespecters (either monsters and S/T) in existence to 0
Avian to 0

The EMEm deck will be still consistent, but way more manageable to beat.

Majespectors, Call and Avian don't matter the slightest in EmEMs. Only Eyes and the quick searchers. Hatricker can stay at 3, so can Mirror Conducter. The issues are Tricklown, Damajuggler and especially Flame Mascot. And now Ariadne, which is broke as fuck and starts your already lockdown with 1,2 generic Counter Trap.

Momma_Sophie
5th November 2015, 02:32 PM
He already has stated before on how the opponent can go ham and screw over the other player :l

It's basically turn 1 Azzathoth-CyDra Infinity-Naturia Beast OR Shock Lock/Rafflesia, which happens VERY often.

There's also the fact that the engine is EXTREMELY consistent and fast. Must I go on as to how? I'm PRETTY sure you should be able to figure this out

I've experienced all of it. Trap Card the Shock; Spell Card the Raffle.

Now, first turn Infinity is easily beaten by decks with many options and flexibility. If your deck has a one-track strategy where breaking one card kills everything, then you know what the problem is: you. The solution? Back to what I was saying earlier: "Get creative." Naturia Beast negates Spells, not Traps; Get Trap Heavy.

- - - Updated - - -


I feel sorry for you...
You should hold your tongue. You shouldn't speak about things you don't know.

Ironically enough, he knows more than you think. Take your own advice.

- - - Updated - - -


Staying on topic, I feel that EmEM won't be tier 0 here on TCG, not only because it lacks Shock, but because of Kozmos. Right now they aren't that threatening to the pendulum deck of doom, but Konami seems to want it to be more relevant and I'm waiting for them to get some way to deal with pendulum spam. But this is just conjecture, there aren't facts to support my claim. As of now, the only thing we know for sure about our next meta is that EmEM is coming, and we need to brace ourselves.

As a side note:


I guess you don't know Mofiz then? I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have said that.

The Kozmo already have something to break the scales with; Sliprider. Just don't go for an OTK you can't muster. Hit with Farmgirl; add the Sliprider and wait for them to drop two scales: banish the Farmgirl, summon Sliprider and break it. Not hard.

Also, you sound like some fanboy/fangirl that cowers before the might of Lord Mofiz!

Momma_Sophie
5th November 2015, 02:43 PM
So I go ot class, come back, find 3 different PMs basically asking WTH is going on here

Lessee
Sophie has yet to "Explain Everything", probably because there is nothing to explain and is now backing herself into a corner with "I didn't say X"
BTW "F/L" means Forbidden/Limited, IE the banlist

Synjo still wants the topic to go back
Protip, it won't. There is really only 1 prediction that can happen, I covered it. this place is now Pojo. Do yourself a favor and don't come back to this thread if you expect the Original topic to continue

Now some guy comes in and clearly has no clue who he is talking to, pity

Ugh, Clowns don't get released til Friday and yet the Circus is already here

Mofiz isn't that "powerful" or "awesome" or "fearsome."
I'm a guy; you'd know if you actually cared to visit my profile and get to know me.

I have no obligation to explain a thing to any of you. I choose to say what I want to say when I want to say it. Even if you ask, I can say "no."

Getting upset and vehement with me, or even ridiculing and ostracizing me won't coerce me anymore than simply doing the opposite.

Lastly, if I didn't say it, then I didn't say it. That means that you assumed, and that everything you're saying is not anything I need to pay attention to considering it's nonexistent basis.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


Well she apparently expects us to destro- sorry "Break"* Their scales before they can summon Apex Avian with them (pendulum call is not a thing, I don't know what you are talking about). Just make sure your backrow hate outnumbers their pendulums...

*Break defined as: Destroy, bounce (then discard) spin or Banish....because she can apparently ALWAYS be able to do that, so we should too (as long as we don't steal her Ideas)

If you're just going to be sarcastic, then you're demonstrating your arrogance. I don't see you coming up up with suggestions or answers, so you've no right to criticize mine so harshly, despite not knowing anything about me or my decks.

And, for the last time: I did not say I was always able to do it. Stop being stupid.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


This is even more than just shooting yourself in the knee. First off, any consistent Pendulum Deck that can't get to summon because someone has a half field of backrow hate must be played by someone who has no clue of to correctly play it. Majes aren't reliant, Qlis were dead after a while anyway, Magicians have either too much Search, Call and/or too many Scales anyway and using S/T hate against Clowns is the most useless thing everyone could ever do at all. That's like using Discord against Xyz Decks. They don't even upuse their hand for several rounds of Xyz Summon.

And now to your bullshit argument of "how can my opponent always have his counters". You don't draw your fucking Extra Deck.........................
People only have to have their Materials ready on Decks only CONSIST of them. They are searchable, recycable, splashable, they can do everything with it.
When it comes to Trap Spamming: People run more generic Traps against everything monster related than backrow hate, even even if not. One Monster hating Trap like Solemn Notice does WAY more than a Twin Twister against a Set-up of Scales. If I talk about a Deck, it's a Deck that has consistent amount of searchers for it's own archtype. Let's say Clowns and Skullcrobat, half of the fucking Deck can go for it, Magicians have more direct searchers than even Nekroz and Majespectors are the most bullshitting searchers anyway. Get Raccoon to search Fox or Frog and get that Counter Trap directly from your Deck. And since their Deck IS ABOUT those cards, you shouldn't be surprised that they always get those.
If your Deck consists of constant and non-stopping Scale hate, you use my Wind Deck from above.

- - - Updated - - -



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You clearly are new.

I don't want to talk to you anymore; you're behaving like an arrogant bastard.

Refrain from communicating with me any further from this point on.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


Forget being able to counter them, half the time (in OCG land) they'll just trot out their field on the first turn and leave you up a Creek without a paddle.

On the subject, which of the cards in that deck would need to be hit to make it any kind of fair?

That's where my argument begins: I don't think cards need to be hit in the first place because everything has an answer.

I've been on topic the whole time.

--Sophie.

MR_Imir
5th November 2015, 02:49 PM
Stupidity is asking for it
Ignorance is not.

now if he CONTINUES being Ignorant, then he is asking for it

What could be so bad your acting like he is some powerful overlord that can destroy me with one finger.....guys this is the internet if I have a problem I can simply close my laptop.

Momma_Sophie
5th November 2015, 02:49 PM
But apparently we can main deck more counters, and that solves EVERYTHING....
I wonder if she clued in by now, the fact that everyone seems to be against her should raise a flag or 2

Depends on what we are talking about. IMO, Gaze and anything that searches scales, ESPECIALLY things like Qli scout that effectively complete scales on its own need to go to 1-0. Thats in general, in the case of clowns, Can't say without plain bias coming in and say "whole deck to 0"

So, because the society thinks that not killing Asian people anymore is a bad idea (everyone against me), then I should give up thinking that it is not (holding true to my belief, given that I have reasons why I should)? I don't even know you people; what makes you think it will bother me if you don't accept my ideals? I only want to help you all. I said before that I understand your points: that you don't want my help. Though I can't help but think that if it's been mentioned a thousand times before, there obviously must be some truth to it.

People still chose to provoke my responses by feeling like they still have to change my mind (which will never happen, I'm sorry), so here I am entertaining everyone and myself. You all need some livening up, anyway.

--Sophie.

Mystic TimeKeeper
5th November 2015, 03:08 PM
Just because this thread is unsalvageable I'll post again.

To everyone, let's point two things:
1) Be REALLY careful about what example you choose to make because posting controversial stuff is a one-way ticket to getting serious hate and the like, especially in a compact community;
2) Nothing is forcing anyone to post except their own pride, so being provoked is one's choice, if someone feels that people are not listening to him falling back is an option, retreating is often a wise choice.

Sotavento
5th November 2015, 03:16 PM
Just because this thread is unsalvageable I'll post again.

To everyone, let's point two things:
1) Be REALLY careful about what example you choose to make because posting controversial stuff is a one-way ticket to getting serious hate and the like, especially in a compact community;
2) Nothing is forcing anyone to post except their own pride, so being provoked is one's choice, if someone feels that people are not listening to him falling back is an option, retreating is often a wise choice.

^Dis.


Apparently being a "veteran" and well-known in a compact community gives you certain privileges which no one is aware of. I second what you say, TimeKeeper: Retreating is often a wise choice. There is no need to victimize oneself or pay attention to someone who doesn't respect your opinions, let alone bashes them as much as they can, just because they feel they can.


Now, to truly balance the meta in the OCG, I believe that certain cards (but not all) of the EM&Em deck must be hit.

SkullCrobat Joker wasn't a problem back then. But personally I think that Monkeyboard and Pendulum Sorcerer/Wizard are the problem cards of Performapals: The former being a non-cost Qli Scout-esque card, and the latter being a wonderful (and a bit unfair) searcher.

Sorcerer's synergy with both Ariadne and Flame Mascot (besides the fact that neither of these two aren't even Hard OPT) is what makes him problematic. If Clowns are dominating the format it's because of this stupid destroy-all-you-can thing. Ah, well, and Luster Pendulum, I suppose.

Monkeyboard to either 1 o 0.
Flame Mascot needs to gtfo of here.
Ariadne doesn't even have a right to exist.
Pendulum Sorcerer to 1.
Damage Juggler to either 1 or 2.
Pls kill ShockMaster.

This may slow down the deck. I dunno.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 03:32 PM
If you're just going to be sarcastic, then you're demonstrating your arrogance. I don't see you coming up up with suggestions or answers, so you've no right to criticize mine so harshly, despite not knowing anything about me or my decks.

And, for the last time: I did not say I was always able to do it. Stop being stupid.

--Sophie.

My Arrogance is well warranted, as I am correct and I know what I am talking about. I have all the right to criticize someone who doesn't understand the concept of probability and has clearly never actually faced the deck in question with a competent person behind it.

Everything you suggested and claimed flies in the face of everything that is known and instead of offering logic, reasoning or you know, PROOF that what you claim works, you just say "I did it, and I went to YCS and did OK there".
You could have gone to Worlds and you would still be wrong.


That's where my argument begins: I don't think cards need to be hit in the first place because everything has an answer.

--Sophie.

The ignorance, it burns...

You keep claiming more counters is the solution. First turn Aza +Shock and Raf/Beast IS UNCOUNTERABLE
Aza denies all hand traps, its first turn so no spells or traps can get in the way. and once its setup you're fucked. You won't be able to play any spells or monsters next turn due to Shock/raf/beast, all you can do is set backrow and they shock that and OTK next turn.

Explain to me how you counter that without gross incompetence on behalf of the opponent, 1st turn Exodia or an assheap of luck that you always go first and ALWAYS have a bottomless or whatever waiting for shock.

adding more counters simply does not work, if it did the entire banlist would not exist


Mofiz isn't that "powerful" or "awesome" or "fearsome."

I have no obligation to explain a thing to any of you. I choose to say what I want to say when I want to say it. Even if you ask, I can say "no."

Getting upset and vehement with me, or even ridiculing and ostracizing me won't coerce me anymore than simply doing the opposite.

Lastly, if I didn't say it, then I didn't say it. That means that you assumed, and that everything you're saying is not anything I need to pay attention to considering it's nonexistent basis.


We assume because you Implied

Who said Mofiz is any of that?

yes, You have no Obligation, but without any Explaination, your point will never be accepted as it amounts "What you said VS Reality and probability". then you suggested we would be stealing your ideas which is heavily insulting to everyone here. Not to mention refusing to explain basically means you have nothing to explain. its the argument equivilent of running away

And I am not getting upset over this.


What could be so bad your acting like he is some powerful overlord that can destroy me with one finger.....guys this is the internet if I have a problem I can simply close my laptop.

Geez Mofiz left one hell of an impression while I was gone..., I'll make this simple

the fact that I worked hard to make a deck unique and virtually handle almost any problem including pendulums.

That is describing Mofiz here, his deck is crazy

you couldn't have been more wrong in your assumption of him, which is why we laughed at it.


I don't want to talk to you anymore; you're behaving like an arrogant bastard.

There is an ignore feature, use it

speaking of which.....

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 03:43 PM
^Dis.


Apparently being a "veteran" and well-known in a compact community gives you certain privileges which no one is aware of. I second what you say, TimeKeeper: Retreating is often a wise choice. There is no need to victimize oneself or pay attention to someone who doesn't respect your opinions, let alone bashes them as much as they can, just because they feel they can.




Nah, just gets you the respect you would expect for being a veteren. especially in a community that doesn't tolerate idiots well. Being able to argue well and knowing what you are talking about (and in my case, being entertaining to read in the process) gets you respect while stupid shit like....say this:

Lol. I've been playing this game since it came out in JAPAN. I topped so many times that you can't imagine. Just to let you know,I'm a former World Champion Dario Longo's teammate. Your value as yugioh opinionist is low as shit,and low is your comprehension of this game.
as a favor for the moron, I will omit their name. Yes, a real person said this...

Gets you pretty damn near universal hate and no one takes you seriously

or at least thats what I think got me the respect I have in this community

as for the topic, my 2 cents was given a while ago, Clown. Overlords.
Roll out the woopie cushion carpet

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 04:23 PM
Mofiz isn't that "powerful" or "awesome" or "fearsome."
I'm a guy; you'd know if you actually cared to visit my profile and get to know me.

I have no obligation to explain a thing to any of you. I choose to say what I want to say when I want to say it. Even if you ask, I can say "no."

Getting upset and vehement with me, or even ridiculing and ostracizing me won't coerce me anymore than simply doing the opposite.

Lastly, if I didn't say it, then I didn't say it. That means that you assumed, and that everything you're saying is not anything I need to pay attention to considering it's nonexistent basis.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -



If you're just going to be sarcastic, then you're demonstrating your arrogance. I don't see you coming up up with suggestions or answers, so you've no right to criticize mine so harshly, despite not knowing anything about me or my decks.

And, for the last time: I did not say I was always able to do it. Stop being stupid.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't want to talk to you anymore; you're behaving like an arrogant bastard.

Refrain from communicating with me any further from this point on.

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -



That's where my argument begins: I don't think cards need to be hit in the first place because everything has an answer.

I've been on topic the whole time.

--Sophie.

Yeah, I'm being an arrogant asshole because some new guy makes stupid and fals accusations about me? Not only that, he makes the wrongest accusations ever. Lol, sure. THAT'S arrogant. And it wasn't even the answer to your part but the part of why your "how does your opponent have all the stuff against" is simply explained in the word "consistency". Bad attempt to prove me wrong.

ARKhaven
5th November 2015, 04:35 PM
I've experienced all of it. Trap Card the Shock; Spell Card the Raffle.

Now, first turn Infinity is easily beaten by decks with many options and flexibility. If your deck has a one-track strategy where breaking one card kills everything, then you know what the problem is: you. The solution? Back to what I was saying earlier: "Get creative." Naturia Beast negates Spells, not Traps; Get Trap Heavy.

Are you implying that I am not creative? If so, I feel offended at the thought.

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 04:38 PM
I've experienced all of it. Trap Card the Shock; Spell Card the Raffle.

Now, first turn Infinity is easily beaten by decks with many options and flexibility. If your deck has a one-track strategy where breaking one card kills everything, then you know what the problem is: you. The solution? Back to what I was saying earlier: "Get creative." Naturia Beast negates Spells, not Traps; Get Trap Heavy.

- - - Updated - - -



Ironically enough, he knows more than you think. Take your own advice.

- - - Updated - - -



The Kozmo already have something to break the scales with; Sliprider. Just don't go for an OTK you can't muster. Hit with Farmgirl; add the Sliprider and wait for them to drop two scales: banish the Farmgirl, summon Sliprider and break it. Not hard.

Also, you sound like some fanboy/fangirl that cowers before the might of Lord Mofiz!

"Trap the Shocklock, Spell the Rafflesia". Let me rephrase that "TopDeck a Monster removing Trap that will kill Shockmaster, even if people go for Diamond DireWolf or Ignister first if they see a face-down" and "Topdeck Raigeki after being Socklocked" and people don't even use Rafflesia anymore.
*Clapclapclap* Good arguments, you are still all about "just use this and this". Yes, because this is exactly why the banlist exists.

And no, he has no idea what he is talking, because I'm obviously the least meta person that ever existed on this fucken forum. I'm the most anti-meta person that can't shut up about and and he accuses me of being a snobbish meta player just like that other "person" (I'm not allowed to call people retard anymore) who has no idea what she was talking about.

"Oh no, he destroyed this one Scale of mine with his Kozmo... Now I have to activate one of the three others, trigger it, or just search another one with Skullcrobat, Damajuggler or 1000 other cards"

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 04:47 PM
That's where my argument begins: I don't think cards need to be hit in the first place because everything has an answer.


ANd you just ultimately prooved that you have no idea of this game. GG. You obviously have no idea what happens when the banlist disappears. And since you obviously have no idea that the best you can do against a FTK is Effect Veiler which will be blocked by azazoth, you won't even understand why unbanning all cards is the most stupid thing someone could ever do.

MR_Imir
5th November 2015, 04:58 PM
My Arrogance is well warranted, as I am correct and I know what I am talking about. I have all the right to criticize someone who doesn't understand the concept of probability and has clearly never actually faced the deck in question with a competent person behind it.

Everything you suggested and claimed flies in the face of everything that is known and instead of offering logic, reasoning or you know, PROOF that what you claim works, you just say "I did it, and I went to YCS and did OK there".
You could have gone to Worlds and you would still be wrong.



The ignorance, it burns...

You keep claiming more counters is the solution. First turn Aza +Shock and Raf/Beast IS UNCOUNTERABLE
Aza denies all hand traps, its first turn so no spells or traps can get in the way. and once its setup you're fucked. You won't be able to play any spells or monsters next turn due to Shock/raf/beast, all you can do is set backrow and they shock that and OTK next turn.

Explain to me how you counter that without gross incompetence on behalf of the opponent, 1st turn Exodia or an assheap of luck that you always go first and ALWAYS have a bottomless or whatever waiting for shock.

adding more counters simply does not work, if it did the entire banlist would not exist



We assume because you Implied

Who said Mofiz is any of that?

yes, You have no Obligation, but without any Explaination, your point will never be accepted as it amounts "What you said VS Reality and probability". then you suggested we would be stealing your ideas which is heavily insulting to everyone here. Not to mention refusing to explain basically means you have nothing to explain. its the argument equivilent of running away

And I am not getting upset over this.



Geez Mofiz left one hell of an impression while I was gone..., I'll make this simple


That is describing Mofiz here, his deck is crazy

you couldn't have been more wrong in your assumption of him, which is why we laughed at it.



There is an ignore feature, use it

speaking of which.....

You are right I don't know Mofiz and from what I have gathered I don't want to know Mofiz but if you say that he has such a crazy deck that can deal with pendulums why is he complaining? I want the best for everyone yugioh career but arrogance will bind you and eventually you will fall

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 05:07 PM
You are right I don't know Mofiz and from what I have gathered I don't want to know Mofiz but if you say that he has such a crazy deck that can deal with pendulums why is he complaining? I want the best for everyone yugioh career but arrogance will bind you and eventually you will fall

You really do miss the point very hardly. Not as hard as "You can counter everything, even uncounterable FTKs" but still very hard.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 05:16 PM
You are right I don't know Mofiz and from what I have gathered I don't want to know Mofiz but if you say that he has such a crazy deck that can deal with pendulums why is he complaining? I want the best for everyone yugioh career but arrogance will bind you and eventually you will fall

Ehhh, you shouldn't make judgments on someone using an arguement as a basis. You'll make mistakes and end up looking stupid

Yeah, a lot of people don't like him and I can't tell you to like him, but you shouldn't use this as a basis for your opinion of him

also where did all this arrogance talk come from. We are simply explaining how things work (to someone who won't listen). Its just yet another conversation on why "Use X to Counter it" doesn't work in practice. Arrogance is the what happens when you go into an argument that you've won before, and with mathematical proof on your side.

That or its just the usual tone we use

Also I never said his deck can deal with pendulums, EMem is nigh unbeatable for a reason. I just said it was crazy and you "Richy rich want a be pro duelist" accusation couldn't be further from the truth (I mean literally couldn't be Further, the guy refuses to run most staples he doesn't like)

manestor
5th November 2015, 05:42 PM
While you guys keep fighting about how to counter pendulums I'm just gonna squeeze in 3 Doomstar Magicians and 3 Cursed Seal of the forbidden spell along with some Breakers and two Fates in my Spellbook deck :D

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 05:48 PM
While you guys keep fighting I'm just gonna squeeze in 3 Doomstar Magicians and 3 Cursed Seal of the forbidden spell along with some Breakers and two Fates in my Spellbook deck :D

Glad I'm not the only one to have Cursed Seal floating around, but Doomstar is basically useless

Dunno bout Mofiz but I'm done with it
Futile battle is Futile, Sophie has earned her slot in my book and has been /ignored

just amazed no admins have stopped this. Deadborder has been lookin in but thats about it apparently

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 06:05 PM
Glad I'm not the only one to have Cursed Seal floating around, but Doomstar is basically useless

Dunno bout Mofiz but I'm done with it
Futile battle is Futile, Sophie has earned her slot in my book and has been /ignored

just amazed no admins have stopped this. Deadborder has been lookin in but thats about it apparently

Guess he has to call someone retarded first to get banned.

Indytotof
5th November 2015, 06:10 PM
Definitely (also, for my suggestion, I was counting Magician.dek but I forget to mention it. That's why Call and Avian were here), we need Pendulum hates cards in either OCG and TCG.

Let's hope Shining Victories will bring us egao.

Also, before I forget:

> Counter Trap Pendulum Fairy (forgot her name) to 0. This card should never existed in the first place
> Notice to 1. No need to ban it.

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 06:17 PM
Definitely (also, for my suggestion, I was counting Magician.dek but I forget to mention it. That's why Call and Avian were here), we need Pendulum hates cards in either OCG and TCG.

Let's hope Shining Victories will bring us egao.

Also, before I forget:

> Counter Trap Pendulum Fairy (forgot her name) to 0. This card should never existed in the first place
> Notice to 1. No need to ban it.

Notice to 0. There IS a reason to ban it. Where is the point in limiting Traps like Warning and Judgment if we only get more of them. It's the same as having three of one. At some point we will have 10 of them, all limited so noone cares anyway.

manestor
5th November 2015, 06:32 PM
Glad I'm not the only one to have Cursed Seal floating around, but Doomstar is basically useless


Why not use Doomstar? I mean if you are playing a Spellbook deck that is.

Dread Kaiser
5th November 2015, 06:35 PM
Why not use Doomstar? I mean if you are playing a Spellbook deck that is.

It can only pop scales during your turn, which is another way of saying "Too Late". not even going into what would happen if scales involved Flame Mascot or Gaze

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 06:35 PM
It can only pop scales during your turn, which is another way of saying "Too Late". not even going into what would happen if scales involved Flame Mascot or Gaze

Don't forget Solemn Fetcher.

Indytotof
5th November 2015, 06:43 PM
I don't know if it topic wised but...

Utopic Dragon basically says "no" to Kozmo.

Pendulum
5th November 2015, 08:21 PM
You are right I don't know Mofiz and from what I have gathered I don't want to know Mofiz but if you say that he has such a crazy deck that can deal with pendulums why is he complaining? I want the best for everyone yugioh career but arrogance will bind you and eventually you will fall

So if you don't fucking know him why did you start talking like you do fucking know him? Don't talk abou what you don't know. And if Mofiz or anyone else is a problem, just close your laptop, then. Use the ignore feature!

And why the hell is momma_sophie still here?

- - - Updated - - -

I just realized the discussion was over. So... Just forget what I said. I'm done with this.

Pendulum
5th November 2015, 09:07 PM
That's where my argument begins: I don't think cards need to be hit in the first place because everything has an answer.

What the...?

Ooooooh! Now I understand!
You were joking all this time, right? Ah, now I understand you were just putting up a show.
I was believing you were serious. But this little sentence just unveiled you.

Now seriously: I think you just lost all of your credibility.

manestor
5th November 2015, 09:15 PM
So what do you feel should be necessary cards to counter the new meta decks? Would you put them in the main or the side?

Mofiz
5th November 2015, 09:23 PM
So what do you feel should be necessary cards to counter the new meta decks? Would you put them in the main or the side?

Chaos Hunter, Imperial Iron Wall, Artifact Lancea, everything that is against banishing. Oustide the general Anti-Meta bullshit.

Jolan
5th November 2015, 09:32 PM
Chaos Hunter, Imperial Iron Wall, Artifact Lancea, everything that is against banishing. Oustide the general Anti-Meta bullshit.

Lancea is cheap and Iron Wall is in Synchron Extreme, whereas Chaos Hunter is in the upcoming Master of Pendulum. This is very good advice since it's cheap and budget players would appreciate it. I like how there's a lot of suggestions about good side deck cards but not all of the people suggesting consider that the cards themselves might be rare or expensive, making them hard to obtain.
I myself am trying to make a list of generic side deck cards I could use, but not everything is within my budget, so it makes me happy to hear cheaper alternatives. I mean, I'd like to get Fairy Wind but despite being reprinted in AP08, that doesn't mean I have an easy way to get it. Still, I'd like to have ways to fight against the upcoming strong decks, especially pendulums with their infinite resources.

Pendulum
5th November 2015, 09:33 PM
So what do you feel should be necessary cards to counter the new meta decks? Would you put them in the main or the side?

Well, people already said what was needed to say.
As to Clowns and pendulum heavy decks, I'd suggest using Counter Traps that negate activations, like Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell or even Magic Jammer. But since they aren't searchable... This way, Pendulums won't activate so cards like Flame Mascot and the likes won't get their effects. And they'll be sent to the graveyard, where is harder for them to return. You can also try Black Horn and stuff like that in addition to Solemn to negate their (Clowns') Xyz summons. But I don't know if that'd be to viable.
As to Kozmo, just don't allow them to banish themselves.

Pendulum
5th November 2015, 09:39 PM
Lancea is cheap and Iron Wall is in Synchron Extreme, whereas Chaos Hunter is in the upcoming Master of Pendulum. This is very good advice since it's cheap and budget players would appreciate it. I like how there's a lot of suggestions about good side deck cards but not all of the people suggesting consider that the cards themselves might be rare or expensive, making them hard to obtain.
I myself am trying to make a list of generic side deck cards I could use, but not everything is within my budget, so it makes me happy to hear cheaper alternatives. I mean, I'd like to get Fairy Wind but despite being reprinted in AP08, that doesn't mean I have an easy way to get it. Still, I'd like to have ways to fight against the upcoming strong decks, especially pendulums with their infinite resources.

I totally agree with you since I like to buy my cards cheap.
I just don't think cards like MST and MST-like-effects would be too good against meta Pendulums, since you would need to use a lot of those to deplete entirely their resources, since they can replenish themselves pretty easily. Also, you may trigger cards like Flame Mascot and that's not a good idea. The best way is don't let them activate in the first place. Use cards that negate activation ou cards like anti-spell fragrance.

Jakinus
5th November 2015, 09:58 PM
Damn, I take a little break and you guys start your own civil war. Not that I really care, I have learned my lesson so I'm not going to stick my nose in other people's discussions (and in this case seems to be over) and only post about what should be the thread about. And just in case, this is MY opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing to discuss here.

Kozmo are rising to a tier 1 status with them having high OTK potential, a Toolbox that reminds me of Gladiator Beasts (a monster that pops backrow, another that pops monsters, other that special summon summon, etc) and also their monsters being LIGHT/DARK is a plus. The future of both Pendulum Magicians and EMEm doesn't look as bright in TCG as in the OCG.

The release of the Pendulum SD is only one month prior to Breakers of Shadow (with the new Solemn, Twin Twister and the Dracorivals), so they'll have a really hard time after that month. EMEm lack too many pieces to be as strong as in the OCG, those being:
1)Rank 4s (Shock Master, Exciton, Chain). Sure they're getting Infinity and Rafflesia in BOSH, but any Tier 1 deck that is proud of that name should be able to get over a negation and destroying 1 or 2 monsters (*cough*Kozmodon'tgiveadamn*cough*).
2)Pendulum Wizard/Sorcerer. We still haven't recieve a clue when he's coming to the TCG so, until we know for sure, considering him as a threat is, in my opinion, pointless.

Now if we are talking about banlist banter for the OCG (I always have fun with this) I have some:
1)Monkeyboard to 1: limiting Joker is stupid but being able to set scales with just one card also is. Monkeyboard is as fragile as any pendulum outside of Magicians so, if anyone want to set their scales with that card at 1, they have to make sure that the opponent doesn't any backrow (and even then, GOSR is a thing).
2)Ariadne and Plushfire to 1: They not being OPT was a mistake, a BIG ONE. But limiting both make them less abusable.
3)Solemn Notice to 2: just like Warning was at 2 before going to 1, I see Notice following the same path. This way players can't make their way to victory with just the Solemns.
4)Banning some Rank 4s like how the TCG did, but it's very unlikely.

I don't see KoA or KoJ hitting neither the Magicians in any shape or form (maybe Wisdom-Eye in the TCG) or Wavering Eyes. Both Pendulum Call and Apex Avian are strong cards, but they have their weaknesses. Wavering Eyes wrecks Magicians and they can only side their own copies because of Pendulum Call; also Pend. Call restricts them of using Wisdom-Eye effect to set scales the same turn. Solemn Notice, a card that would most likely become a staple, counters Apex Avian. You can also bait Avian and then Fiendish Chain it or Breakthrough Skill it.

In my experience playing pendulums, Wavering Eyes plays a key role in any pendulum mirror match; that card is always a threat. You don't want to set scales if your opponent also have theirs, or you make sure to have yours before doing any play. To put it in another perspective, is like the Nekroz mirror match and Trishula: at the end of the turn you don't want to have a field that can be trish'd, neither you want to get OTK'd so you make sure to have a Valk in hand, and if you leave a field, you have your Veiler just in case. Limiting or straight banning Wavering Eyes would take out that factor, making every pendulum deck in any match-up go YOLO.

Counters for the meta to come? Gozen Match is a good option against Magicians and EMEm, not so much against Kozmo but works. Grave of the Super Ancient Organism is good too if you want something that your opponent won't expect. My personal favorite is Destiny HERO Plasma, nowadays is easy to summon and if you use Shadow Mist to search it, you could add Mask Change for Dark Law.

Jolan
5th November 2015, 10:08 PM
I personally don't feel happy with Notice at 3 , 2, or even 1. It's just.....Like, what deck doesn't run a Warning at the moment? It's a 2k cost that's an out to anything you want, ever. It stops literally anything. So, why would you want to allow more cards like that in a deck? Having Notice means that you get upwards of 2 to 4 cards that are just a giant NOPE button. That's 4 times more than what we currently have. It's absolutely not fun for either player. And decks that run Ariadne can just ignore the LP cost...It's preposterous, in my opinion.

Pendulum
5th November 2015, 10:14 PM
I personally don't feel happy with Notice at 3 , 2, or even 1. It's just.....Like, what deck doesn't run a Warning at the moment? It's a 2k cost that's an out to anything you want, ever. It stops literally anything. So, why would you want to allow more cards like that in a deck? Having Notice means that you get upwards of 2 to 4 cards that are just a giant NOPE button. That's 4 times more than what we currently have. It's absolutely not fun for either player. And decks that run Ariadne can just ignore the LP cost...It's preposterous, in my opinion.

I keep making those questions. They make broken cards. They either limit or ban them. And then they create similar ones. Konami's logic.

Jakinus
5th November 2015, 10:28 PM
I personally don't feel happy with Notice at 3 , 2, or even 1. It's just.....Like, what deck doesn't run a Warning at the moment? It's a 2k cost that's an out to anything you want, ever. It stops literally anything. So, why would you want to allow more cards like that in a deck? Having Notice means that you get upwards of 2 to 4 cards that are just a giant NOPE button. That's 4 times more than what we currently have. It's absolutely not fun for either player. And decks that run Ariadne can just ignore the LP cost...It's preposterous, in my opinion.

The same reason players run floodgates, Breakthroughs, Fiendishs, etc. People just want to do their stuff and don't care about the opponent or what he is running. Low tier/weaker decks are the ones that use those cards more and more often. Those cards exist to "slow down" stronger decks. But the thing is "if those crappy decks can run those cards and do something, why I, a Tier 1/1.5, can't run them". Look at HEROes and Tellars, they don't do anything special or are really strong but they have a ton of backrow and floodgates that don't hurt them to back them and one of the best toolbox in the game. That give them the push to be relevant.

Jolan
5th November 2015, 10:42 PM
The same reason players run floodgates, Breakthroughs, Fiendishs, etc. People just want to do their stuff and don't care about the opponent or what he is running. Low tier/weaker decks are the ones that use those cards more and more often. Those cards exist to "slow down" stronger decks. But the thing is "if those crappy decks can run those cards and do something, why I, a Tier 1/1.5, can't run them". Look at HEROes and Tellars, they don't do anything special or are really strong but they have a ton of backrow and floodgates that don't hurt them to back them and one of the best toolbox in the game. That give them the push to be relevant.

Floodgates, despite however painful they are, imo, are ok. At 1, of course. More than that is just asking for trouble.
Because they apply to both players. Vanity? Neither player can special summon. Is it an issue? pop something else of theirs, bam, vanity's gone.
L1T? Would get hit down to 1 I assume but also entirely removable via MST or the like. It won't magically reappear, either. This isn't a pendulum monster. And it still affects both players.

On the other hand, Solemns are a single-use ''F U'' button. By virtue of the game's mechanics, nothing can be responded to a counter trap, except, with another counter trap. Vanity? I can MST it in the same chain. Solemn? I need to have set a counter trap 1 turn ago, just so I can use it to stop this one the enemy is using.

Slowing down the game, tho YMMV, is alright. Entirely outright preventing your opponent from playing anything because you Solemn their big monster is just not fun.

Jakinus
5th November 2015, 11:07 PM
I totally agree that floodgates are better at 1 and that, even if MST and the like are not the best and consistent way to deal with them, is one way and, in some cases, the only one. But there's something that you missed: every limited or semi-limited floodgate and "youcan'tplaythegame" card (Vanity, Skill Drain and the Solemns) were, at one point, at 3.

Fortunately, I only had a glimpse of the Tele-DAD format with Royal Opression at 3 but didn't experience the "Solemn Brigade" format, and returned to the game when Vanity and Skill Drain were put at 1. So I can't really say how the game was when you really couldn't play, but there is a thing that is certain, if Solemn Notice at 3 really changes the game, most likely that card will be limited or banned. Maybe 2 or 3 formats will pass before they hit the card. It's a matter of patience.

Mofiz
6th November 2015, 09:15 AM
Floodgates, despite however painful they are, imo, are ok. At 1, of course. More than that is just asking for trouble.
Because they apply to both players. Vanity? Neither player can special summon. Is it an issue? pop something else of theirs, bam, vanity's gone.
L1T? Would get hit down to 1 I assume but also entirely removable via MST or the like. It won't magically reappear, either. This isn't a pendulum monster. And it still affects both players.

On the other hand, Solemns are a single-use ''F U'' button. By virtue of the game's mechanics, nothing can be responded to a counter trap, except, with another counter trap. Vanity? I can MST it in the same chain. Solemn? I need to have set a counter trap 1 turn ago, just so I can use it to stop this one the enemy is using.

Slowing down the game, tho YMMV, is alright. Entirely outright preventing your opponent from playing anything because you Solemn their big monster is just not fun.

Floodgates are not used to "turn down both players slow". It's literally a win condition. If a HERO Player started with Dark Law and flipped that to a Fusion Spell or a summoned Mat, they mostlikely won already. It's just too much of a game impact that gives one sided opportunity. It's not a two sided lock, it doesn't "slow down" anything. That's only in theory. All of them can be outplayed so you take as much advantage as possible from it. Even worse, in cases like Vanity, if your opponent didn't topdeck MST (see Sophies whole bs arguments), you can simply activate ANYTHING so it gets destroyed and then you summon again.
And limiting them won't do anything if there are so many different floodgates that accumulate to a bunch, see Qlis. "It can be countered" is what Sophie did the whole time, we don't have to explain why that's entirely wrong. A run a LOT of backrow hate, but if I don't draw it or already upused it for other Traps, I simply lost because I can't get out big Monsters. It's just stupidly unfair.

If a card has too much game impact for little to no effort, it's overpowered or even broken. Floodgates only have to be flipped up and your opponent mostlikely aleady lost if he doesn't have something to kill it.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 09:20 AM
unfair.

It's not cool either when you play a deck with almost 30 monsters (or even more) and your opponent just flips Skill Drain.
Even worse when your opponent flips Skill Drain + Lose 1 Turn + Vanity. Yeah, it happens.

Indytotof
6th November 2015, 09:23 AM
It's not cool either when you play a deck with almost 30 monsters (or even more) and your opponent just flips Skill Drain.
Even worse when your opponent flips Skill Drain + Lose 1 Turn + Vanity. Yeah, it happens.

In that case, you are free to hack him.

He cannot be such a skilless player and won without any repercussion.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 09:30 AM
In that case, you are free to hack him.

He cannot be such a skilless player and won without any repercussion.

What can I do?
Rules allow this, so I can't do a thing. It's legitimate on my opponent's part. But that doesn't mean it's fun or fair. Because it isn't.

Indytotof
6th November 2015, 09:51 AM
What can I do?
Rules allow this, so I can't do a thing. It's legitimate on my opponent's part. But that doesn't mean it's fun or fair. Because it isn't.

Rules should not allow this and this is shouldn't be legetimate play.

A law like this should exist:

You can only use one "Solemn" Trap Card per deck. You cannot activate "Solemn" Trap Cards if your opponent control only 1 monster.

Also, for the ban list:

> Vanity's Emptiness to 0
> Skill Drain to 0
> Lose 1 Turn to 0

Those cards should never exist in the first place.

> Royal Magicial Library to 0 or get a "OPT" clause to his effect.

Mofiz
6th November 2015, 10:03 AM
Rules should not allow this and this is shouldn't be legetimate play.

A law like this should exist:

You can only use one "Solemn" Trap Card per deck. You cannot activate "Solemn" Trap Cards if your opponent control only 1 monster.

Also, for the ban list:

> Vanity's Emptiness to 0
> Skill Drain to 0
> Lose 1 Turn to 0

Those cards should never exist in the first place.

> Royal Magicial Library to 0 or get a "OPT" clause to his effect.

I still think Konami has to create cards that simply discourage excessive bs plays like that. The more cancerous your play, the more you should get punished.
A card that increases its effects up to the number of backrows your opponent has. Something that has higher payback the more your opponent negates your shit and a heavily buffed Numeron Dragon in case you are getting OTKd.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 10:06 AM
You can only use one "Solemn" Trap Card per deck.

Yeah, they could try making rules like that.
It's like Pokémon. You can't have Pokémons with Swift Swim in your party if you have one with Drizzle, for instance (except in Uber, of course).


Also, for the ban list:

> Vanity's Emptiness to 0
> Skill Drain to 0
> Lose 1 Turn to 0

Those cards should never exist in the first place.

Lose 1 Turn to 0. Seems too much.
As for the others, I don't mind, they could go to hell.

Indytotof
6th November 2015, 10:20 AM
I still think Konami has to create cards that simply discourage excessive bs plays like that. The more cancerous your play, the more you should get punished.
A card that increases its effects up to the number of backrows your opponent has. Something that has higher payback the more your opponent negates your shit and a heavily buffed Numeron Dragon in case you are getting OTKd.

Number 100: Numeron Dragon

Rank 12/LIGHT/Dragon/Xyz/Effect

0/0

3 "Number" Xyz monsters with the same rank

This card cannot be targeted or destroyed by cards effect and his Special Summon cannot be negated
You can Special Summon this card from your Extra Deck if you control no Xyz monsters (this summon is traited as a Xyz Summon).
The ATK of any monster that battles this card becomes 0 during the Battle Phase only
When this card attack, negates all your opponent's cards effects. Also, he cannot use any effect during the rest of the Battle Phase.
When this card is destroyed by battle: destroy all card in the field, also return all Spell and Trap Cards that were destroyed on the field this turn to the same position they were in before they were destroyed (except by this card effet).
While this card as Xyz Materials attached to it: Target one of your opponent "Number" Xyz monsters, take control of hit but its effect is negated and cannot attack this turn.
You can detach 1 Xyz Material attach to this card: it gain ATK and DEF equal to all the Rank of all the Xyz monsters on the field x1000

Those effects cannot be negated.

> Here, the almighty god of Xyz that can be unstoppable beatstick but is hard to summon on field.
> He have buffed effect of: Dragluon, Prime Photon and Tachyon, the three cards used to summon him. He also have inherant Utopia the Lightning effect.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 10:22 AM
Number 100: Numeron Dragon

Rank 12/LIGHT/Dragon/Xyz/Effect

0/0

3 "Number" Xyz monsters with the same rank

This card cannot be targeted or destroyed by cards effect and his Special Summon cannot be negated
You can Special Summon this card from your Extra Deck if you control no Xyz monsters (this summon is traited as a Xyz Summon).
The ATK of any monster that battles this card becomes 0 during the Battle Phase only
When this card attack, negates all your opponent's cards effects. Also, he cannot use any effect during the rest of the Battle Phase.
When this card is destroyed by battle: destroy all card in the field, also return all Spell and Trap Cards that were destroyed on the field this turn to the same position they were in before they were destroyed (except by this card effet).
While this card as Xyz Materials attached to it: Target one of your opponent "Number" Xyz monsters, take control of hit but its effect is negated and cannot attack this turn.
You can detach 1 Xyz Material attach to this card: it gain ATK and DEF equal to all the Rank of all the Xyz monsters on the field x1000

Those effects cannot be negated.

> Here, the almighty god of Xyz that can be unstoppable beatstick but is hard to summon on field.
> He have buffed effect of: Dragluon, Prime Photon and Tachyon, the three cards used to summon him. He also have inherant Utopia the Lightning effect.

I think... That's too much...

Hope in the Interstice
6th November 2015, 10:23 AM
Numeron Dragon
Should save it for the Create-a-Card thread.

Indytotof
6th November 2015, 10:28 AM
I think... That's too much...

I'll remove the first and S39 effect from him and keep the buffed Tachyon, Prime Photon (that the card do have in the anime) and Dragluon effect. As the effect the card have on its own (that I kept).


Should save it for the Create-a-Card thread.

I'm on it.

Return to the topic.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 10:30 AM
I still think Konami has to create cards that simply discourage excessive bs plays like that. The more cancerous your play, the more you should get punished.
A card that increases its effects up to the number of backrows your opponent has. Something that has higher payback the more your opponent negates your shit and a heavily buffed Numeron Dragon in case you are getting OTKd.

Well, I don't know if that would work properly because it would punish players that had set 3 Two-Pronged Attack and 2 Robbin Goblin.
What I'm trying to say is it would hurt casual players more than those "I just wanna wreck my opponent" players.
And how would you count how many times your opponent hurt you?

- - - Updated - - -


I'll remove the first and S39 effect from him and keep the buffed Tachyon, Prime Photon (that the card do have in the anime) and Dragluon effect. As the effect the card have on its own (that I kept).

Still... But that's not something to discuss here, yeah.

Mofiz
6th November 2015, 10:30 AM
Number 100: Numeron Dragon

Rank 12/LIGHT/Dragon/Xyz/Effect

0/0

3 "Number" Xyz monsters with the same rank

This card cannot be targeted or destroyed by cards effect and his Special Summon cannot be negated
You can Special Summon this card from your Extra Deck if you control no Xyz monsters (this summon is traited as a Xyz Summon).
The ATK of any monster that battles this card becomes 0 during the Battle Phase only
When this card attack, negates all your opponent's cards effects. Also, he cannot use any effect during the rest of the Battle Phase.
When this card is destroyed by battle: destroy all card in the field, also return all Spell and Trap Cards that were destroyed on the field this turn to the same position they were in before they were destroyed (except by this card effet).
While this card as Xyz Materials attached to it: Target one of your opponent "Number" Xyz monsters, take control of hit but its effect is negated and cannot attack this turn.
You can detach 1 Xyz Material attach to this card: it gain ATK and DEF equal to all the Rank of all the Xyz monsters on the field x1000

Those effects cannot be negated.

> Here, the almighty god of Xyz that can be unstoppable beatstick but is hard to summon on field.
> He have buffed effect of: Dragluon, Prime Photon and Tachyon, the three cards used to summon him. He also have inherant Utopia the Lightning effect.

3 Number Xyz Monsters isn't hard at all. Clowns can summon it. Also Numeron Dragon is a comeback card used in the last moment. It should be defensive to stop a stupid OTK. Ill have to go to school now so maybe ill do something later.

Also its a Rank 1

Hope in the Interstice
6th November 2015, 10:31 AM
Well, I don't know if that would work properly because it would punish players that had set 3 Two-Pronged Attack and 2 Robbin Goblin.
What I'm trying to say is it would hurt casaul players more than those "I just wanna wreck my opponent" players.
And how would you count how many times your opponent hurt you?
Problem there is that no one runs Two-Pronged Attack or Robbin' Goblin. Furthermore, those "I just wanna wreck my opponent" players tend to spam Solemn Notice and Solemn Warning and even Grand Horn of Heaven like there's no tomorrow so it's going to hurt them more than the casuals. I feel that your worries are unfounded.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 10:34 AM
Problem there is that no one runs Two-Pronged Attack or Robbin' Goblin. Furthermore, those "I just wanna wreck my opponent" players tend to spam Solemn Notice and Solemn Warning and even Grand Horn of Heaven like there's no tomorrow so it's going to hurt them more than the casuals. I feel that your worries are unfounded.

I was just trying to push things to the ridiculous to be more easy for me to explain my point. But yeah, no one uses those cards.
So, they could create a card that would check if the opponent has set Counter Traps or something like that, don't you think? And destroy them without giving them the chance to activate.

Mofiz
6th November 2015, 10:38 AM
I was just trying to push things to the ridiculous to be more easy for me to explain my point. But yeah, no one uses those cards.
So, they could create a card that would check if the opponent has set Counter Traps or something like that, don't you think? And destroy them without giving them the chance to activate.

At this state, we reached a point where a facedown is considered hell, no matter what. Also, NO Kind of backrow spamming is acceptable. That's like asking for Nukeroach, and I Would even appreciate that piece of shit for such a case. The Paranoia is strong

clairedestroyer!
6th November 2015, 10:45 AM
Trap cards are actually one of the best design elements in this game and for the most part are interactive. It's not a coincidence a lot of other TCGs have a similar concept, like secrets from HS. Yu-Gi-Oh without trap cards would've stopped being played ages ago.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 10:45 AM
That's like asking for Nukeroach, and I Would even appreciate that piece of shit for such a case. The Paranoia is strong

For you to be asking for Nukeroach, yeah.


At this state, we reached a point where a facedown is considered hell, no matter what. Also, NO Kind of backrow spamming is acceptable.

They could try to make a balanced card to destroy those more powerful cards without hurting those weaker cards. But I guess that's just impossible.
Twin Twister was a good start as regards to backrow hate, but it was released along Solemn Notice... Konami: "We give you backrow hate, but we also give you more backrow to hate." What the hell were they thinking? If I may call that "thinking". Yeah, I know the answer: marketing. Powerful cards sell.

Mofiz
6th November 2015, 10:58 AM
- - - Updated - - -


Trap cards are actually one of the best design elements in this game and for the most part are interactive. It's not a coincidence a lot of other TCGs have a similar concept, like secrets from HS. Yu-Gi-Oh without trap cards would've stopped being played ages ago.

"interactive "
D prison is interactive
Drstruction Jammer is interactive
The huge Revolution over is interactive
Hell even Black Horn is
Cards that are used to protect his weaknesses.
The used ones,being solemns and floogates are there to NOT interact. They are used to NOT let the opponent play. They are so generic and counter everything every deck has to do Anyway so it cant fail cockblocking. Yeah, interactive.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 11:06 AM
Trap cards are actually one of the best design elements in this game and for the most part are interactive. It's not a coincidence a lot of other TCGs have a similar concept, like secrets from HS. Yu-Gi-Oh without trap cards would've stopped being played ages ago.

I used to like traps a lot, during the early game. Now I hate them.
Not because of their mechanic, but because the game basically divided traps into two categories: Super strong (Floodgates and those Counter Summon/Effect negation); And useless.
I'm being too extremist here, of course. There are still cards in the middle of those categories like Breakthrough Skill or Skill prisoner or Echo Oscillation and many more. But, even so, they can be easily coutered. Well, I think you get the point.

Jolan
6th November 2015, 11:17 AM
Floodgates are not used to "turn down both players slow". It's literally a win condition. If a HERO Player started with Dark Law and flipped that to a Fusion Spell or a summoned Mat, they mostlikely won already. It's just too much of a game impact that gives one sided opportunity. It's not a two sided lock, it doesn't "slow down" anything. That's only in theory. All of them can be outplayed so you take as much advantage as possible from it. Even worse, in cases like Vanity, if your opponent didn't topdeck MST (see Sophies whole bs arguments), you can simply activate ANYTHING so it gets destroyed and then you summon again.
And limiting them won't do anything if there are so many different floodgates that accumulate to a bunch, see Qlis. "It can be countered" is what Sophie did the whole time, we don't have to explain why that's entirely wrong. A run a LOT of backrow hate, but if I don't draw it or already upused it for other Traps, I simply lost because I can't get out big Monsters. It's just stupidly unfair.

If a card has too much game impact for little to no effort, it's overpowered or even broken. Floodgates only have to be flipped up and your opponent mostlikely aleady lost if he doesn't have something to kill it.

I think I get your point. It doesn't actually slow down, it just makes it a fight for whoever topdecks something better first. And if you're already winning and you flip a floodgate, the situation remains in your favor until the floodgate is removed. Which requires backrow removal, which is inconsistent. So rather than freeze the game for both players, Floodgates essentially freeze it in your favor. And so, the more floodgates exist in the game, the more chances a player has to set up his own winning condition.

So speaking of dealing with backrow removal, I may have missed the times when everyone played Denko, but why isn't that an option nowadays? Because they can just Solemn your Denko if you go second? It's also unsearchable? I am answering my own questions here, probably, but I'm still questioning why backrow hate is advancing faster than backrow removal nowadays.

Pendulum
6th November 2015, 11:27 AM
I think I get your point. It doesn't actually slow down, it just makes it a fight for whoever topdecks something better first. And if you're already winning and you flip a floodgate, the situation remains in your favor until the floodgate is removed. Which requires backrow removal, which is inconsistent. So rather than freeze the game for both players, Floodgates essentially freeze it in your favor. And so, the more floodgates exist in the game, the more chances a player has to set up his own winning condition.

Nice to see a reasonable person.


So speaking of dealing with backrow removal, I may have missed the times when everyone played Denko, but why isn't that an option nowadays? Because they can just Solemn your Denko if you go second? It's also unsearchable? I am answering my own questions here, probably, but I'm still questioning why backrow hate is advancing faster than backrow removal nowadays.

Besides of what you just said, in my opinion, Denko is vulnerable. You can just run over it, or use Veiler to flip your floodgates during your opponent's Main Phase. It uses your Normal Summon and doesn't let you set your own things.
But I think there are still people who side it. It could work good. It could work bad.

clairedestroyer!
6th November 2015, 12:23 PM
- - - Updated - - -



"interactive "
D prison is interactive
Drstruction Jammer is interactive
The huge Revolution over is interactive
Hell even Black Horn is
Cards that are used to protect his weaknesses.
The used ones,being solemns and floogates are there to NOT interact. They are used to NOT let the opponent play. They are so generic and counter everything every deck has to do Anyway so it cant fail cockblocking. Yeah, interactive.

Interactive does not mean "lets the opponent play". In every single one of the cases you mentioned even, if we go by your definition they reduce interactivity. Your opponent is trying to play. Attacking, destroying cards, actions like Summons are all things that are part of playing the game and those cards stop them. Ergo, your definition is incorrect. Interactive means, in the context of card games, "a card that impacts your opponent's board". By that definition the Solemn cards are interactive: You're not flipping a Solemn card against your opponent doing nothing and then something happens. They have to make a move for them to do anything. It can be argued that Solemn cards do too much, and for the most part Konami agrees, but that's a discussion of power and scope and not whether a card is ignoring a fundamental aspect of the game. Floodgates, for the most part, are not interactive (hence why earlier I said most traps are interactive) but even in edge cases they can be. Imperial Iron Wall is a good example. Here's a small hypothetical: I flip IIW against a zombie deck. They lose Mezuki's effect entirely (non-interactive) but it turns out they have Plaguespreader in hand and it becomes much much better with IIW up (interactive). Naturally that's only a small example but even floodgates can have small instances of interactivity. I'm gonna say that I agree that in general floodgates are a bad design space but that is not set in stone. They could easily be designed better.

It's also worth noting that in several instances floodgates are not as strong as the general consensus dictates. I'll name 2. Firstly, if floodgates are needed to win, and it is not a very quick victory, the long term game favors the player not floodgating. Why? That seems counterintuitive. But it follows. Assume that in a game, two decks are similar in power but the weaker one runs floodgates. Assuming that were not the case, the weaker deck would lose more often. This is the ideal case (if the non-floodgater is naturally MUCH stronger then the same applies but in smaller timeframes and if the nonfloodgater is weaker then it's just a matter of making an already winning board less counterable). If you need to draw floodgates to win and lose if you can't flood, and your opponent needs to draw outs to win and loses if they don't, what are the relative numbers? Let's say both players draw 1. One floodgate is played and then outed before the game is over. So nonfloodgater wins. In any situation where the numbers are equal, the floodgater loses. Ergo they need one more floodgate than outs drawn. Obviously this is not a huge difference if the floodgater can already generate more advantage and/or tempo outside the floodgate (because the more broad cards do affect both players. Mistake makes my deck weaker even if I run less searching than my oppponent, and minus the floodgate I was already weaker to start) but in that instance they were likely to win regardless, right? Obviously in specific instances outs to a card do not justify the card, but speaking far more generally facets of the game that seem less "fair" are acceptable if they can be mitigated through skill or small deck alterations. It is absurd to expect that your deck can run 40 cards that don't do anything but make you win and expect to always win. That's actually less interactive than your opponent being able to impact you outside their turn.

The second reason is one of scope and ability. Many floodgates are very narrow in scope. Admittedly some aren't and those are rightly listed for the most part. Naturally that could be handled differently but that's a different subject. The ones that aren't are so narrow that accusing them of being fundamentally problematic seems excessive. Imperial Iron Wall seems really strong against say Infernoid or Kozmo, but if you main it you'll lose more often to decks like Burning Abyss who use that facet less. It's also worth remembering that floogates still don't win games without other cards involved. This can also be seen frequently. You floodgate your opponent, but your plays were weak. They happen to have a single play better than yours, and now even with your floodgate in position you're in a bad spot unless you can out them at your reduced strength. Variance also applies against floodgates as much as in their favor. They are for the most part unsearchable and rightly so. They're also weak if your opponent has already developed their gamestate to a point where they're in the lead. Vanity's doesn't help you if you draw it after they make a big board. They are not more infallible than most other cards.

Remember again that I'm not saying they aren't a problem. They are not great design and can be handled much better. But as a basic idea they are easily workable into a positive state. Removing their lines of play is as valid and acceptable as adding more to your own (or traps and trap-likes in general would be bad design, and reality sates otherwise), the issue boils down mostly to balance and opportunity cost vs. reward, which is something that's addressed in individual card design and banlists.

Mofiz
6th November 2015, 04:00 PM
Interactive does not mean "lets the opponent play". In every single one of the cases you mentioned even, if we go by your definition they reduce interactivity. Your opponent is trying to play. Attacking, destroying cards, actions like Summons are all things that are part of playing the game and those cards stop them. Ergo, your definition is incorrect. Interactive means, in the context of card games, "a card that impacts your opponent's board". By that definition the Solemn cards are interactive: You're not flipping a Solemn card against your opponent doing nothing and then something happens. They have to make a move for them to do anything. It can be argued that Solemn cards do too much, and for the most part Konami agrees, but that's a discussion of power and scope and not whether a card is ignoring a fundamental aspect of the game. Floodgates, for the most part, are not interactive (hence why earlier I said most traps are interactive) but even in edge cases they can be. Imperial Iron Wall is a good example. Here's a small hypothetical: I flip IIW against a zombie deck. They lose Mezuki's effect entirely (non-interactive) but it turns out they have Plaguespreader in hand and it becomes much much better with IIW up (interactive). Naturally that's only a small example but even floodgates can have small instances of interactivity. I'm gonna say that I agree that in general floodgates are a bad design space but that is not set in stone. They could easily be designed better.

It's also worth noting that in several instances floodgates are not as strong as the general consensus dictates. I'll name 2. Firstly, if floodgates are needed to win, and it is not a very quick victory, the long term game favors the player not floodgating. Why? That seems counterintuitive. But it follows. Assume that in a game, two decks are similar in power but the weaker one runs floodgates. Assuming that were not the case, the weaker deck would lose more often. This is the ideal case (if the non-floodgater is naturally MUCH stronger then the same applies but in smaller timeframes and if the nonfloodgater is weaker then it's just a matter of making an already winning board less counterable). If you need to draw floodgates to win and lose if you can't flood, and your opponent needs to draw outs to win and loses if they don't, what are the relative numbers? Let's say both players draw 1. One floodgate is played and then outed before the game is over. So nonfloodgater wins. In any situation where the numbers are equal, the floodgater loses. Ergo they need one more floodgate than outs drawn. Obviously this is not a huge difference if the floodgater can already generate more advantage and/or tempo outside the floodgate (because the more broad cards do affect both players. Mistake makes my deck weaker even if I run less searching than my oppponent, and minus the floodgate I was already weaker to start) but in that instance they were likely to win regardless, right? Obviously in specific instances outs to a card do not justify the card, but speaking far more generally facets of the game that seem less "fair" are acceptable if they can be mitigated through skill or small deck alterations. It is absurd to expect that your deck can run 40 cards that don't do anything but make you win and expect to always win. That's actually less interactive than your opponent being able to impact you outside their turn.

The second reason is one of scope and ability. Many floodgates are very narrow in scope. Admittedly some aren't and those are rightly listed for the most part. Naturally that could be handled differently but that's a different subject. The ones that aren't are so narrow that accusing them of being fundamentally problematic seems excessive. Imperial Iron Wall seems really strong against say Infernoid or Kozmo, but if you main it you'll lose more often to decks like Burning Abyss who use that facet less. It's also worth remembering that floogates still don't win games without other cards involved. This can also be seen frequently. You floodgate your opponent, but your plays were weak. They happen to have a single play better than yours, and now even with your floodgate in position you're in a bad spot unless you can out them at your reduced strength. Variance also applies against floodgates as much as in their favor. They are for the most part unsearchable and rightly so. They're also weak if your opponent has already developed their gamestate to a point where they're in the lead. Vanity's doesn't help you if you draw it after they make a big board. They are not more infallible than most other cards.

Remember again that I'm not saying they aren't a problem. They are not great design and can be handled much better. But as a basic idea they are easily workable into a positive state. Removing their lines of play is as valid and acceptable as adding more to your own (or traps and trap-likes in general would be bad design, and reality sates otherwise), the issue boils down mostly to balance and opportunity cost vs. reward, which is something that's addressed in individual card design and banlists.

You say so much yet so little. I don't even understand why you try to justify Trap Cards as on their own after I already showed that I differenciate between Traps. But the usage of Traps today took the way I described often enough, and unless Konami bans those (which isn't happening) we need more GOOD ways to remove those.
And the obvious difference between the Traps I showed you and it should be REALLY obvious now: Some counter only specific moves, so they let your opponent play after all, but forces them to not play a certain way or "punishes" them for playing a not so generic but expected way, yet giving them the opportunity to do something about it. OR they lure the opponent into playing a certain way so the Trap can be used against it. Example: hundreds of people running straight into my Starlight Road and bluffrows. THOSE are interactive. You play WITH your opponent. You either counter a specific playstyle of them because you expected it or you tricked him into playing like that, which is the most interactive way of playing ever.

The other group of Traps I showed (and this is REALLY obvious now) doesn't want your opponent to play at all. They are so speciifc and countering that it can be used practically against every existing Deck and every possible move. They are only about not giving them the chance to do ANYTHING at all. They don't give them the opportunity to play another certain generic style to outplay them, they just fuck everything up. You don't even have to lure them, they have to play that way because they MUST do it. Summoning and using Monster effects AT ALL is what this game is about.
THAT is not interactive, that is playing Solitaire since you nullify EVERYTHING your opponent possibly could do. You kill any interaction you could have.

Your entire example about floodgate needing Decks doesn't even say anything. Who talks about any Deck "needing" them, people play them regardless, because they can abuse the hell out of it. After having build a strong set-up, flipping that up has advantage to MANY STRONG Decks. You have big monsters, your opponent can't counter those big monsters aaand you are done for until you can destroy it.
The fact that one card with little to no cost has that much impact (without even needing a special combo), is simply wrong and badly designed hence why they have to get hit.

I never said anything against Trap Cards in general but the Traps used today. Ofcourse only the best ones are used but the best ones at the moment are Solitaire cards.

manestor
7th November 2015, 12:41 AM
Well then why do people that draw these strong cards not win all the time?

manestor
7th November 2015, 12:51 AM
By the way, I hear that infernoids may become really good. What do you think? Where can I find a good article that explains their mechanics and what kind of sides would you use against that?
(trying to stay on topic :) )

Dread Kaiser
7th November 2015, 01:22 AM
By the way, I hear that infernoids may become really good. What do you think? Where can I find a good article that explains their mechanics and what kind of sides would you use against that?
(trying to stay on topic :) )

Activate reasoning, Mill 90% of deck
revive said deck, OTK

Theres yer Infernoids

Cheesedude
7th November 2015, 02:13 AM
So, it seems the thread has moved on, but let me address several things:

This thread went seriously off-topic. In the future, try to create new threads when this happens, guys. You can even request a mod split them out. I would split this thread now, but it appears the conversation is over anyway.

Other than the off-topic posting, I see nothing (and perhaps I missed it, in which case please report the posts) that would need moderation here. Everyone disagreeing with you is not a bannable offense if its not coupled with something worse.

Finally, I don't really what the issue was to begin with. Though, um, well, I'm pretty terrible at this game even in terms of casual play, so I don't know. This isn't my forte.

Dread Kaiser
7th November 2015, 03:15 AM
So, it seems the thread has moved on, but let me address several things:

This thread went seriously off-topic. In the future, try to create new threads when this happens, guys. You can even request a mod split them out. I would split this thread now, but it appears the conversation is over anyway.

Other than the off-topic posting, I see nothing (and perhaps I missed it, in which case please report the posts) that would need moderation here. Everyone disagreeing with you is not a bannable offense if its not coupled with something worse.

Finally, I don't really what the issue was to begin with. Though, um, well, I'm pretty terrible at this game even in terms of casual play, so I don't know. This isn't my forte.

Good to know and Sorry about that. and I didn't see anything worth flagging over. the whole thing was rather civil throughout

Out of Curiosity, how should we go about requesting mod split, PM? Flag? etc

Cheesedude
7th November 2015, 03:22 AM
I personally have no issues with a PM to me, but I cannot speak for the other mods. So flagging it would probably be best. Just be sure you clarify that that's what the flag is for.

Deadborder
7th November 2015, 08:07 AM
The other group of Traps I showed (and this is REALLY obvious now) doesn't want your opponent to play at all. They are so speciifc and countering that it can be used practically against every existing Deck and every possible move. They are only about not giving them the chance to do ANYTHING at all. They don't give them the opportunity to play another certain generic style to outplay them, they just fuck everything up. You don't even have to lure them, they have to play that way because they MUST do it. Summoning and using Monster effects AT ALL is what this game is about.
THAT is not interactive, that is playing Solitaire since you nullify EVERYTHING your opponent possibly could do. You kill any interaction you could have.


ignoring the issue of these types of cards being interactive or not, it's interesting that the idea of a counter trap that stops a monster from doing its thing has such a huge impact on the game when cards like bottomless have existed for a while and haven't had nearly the amount of complaints. yes, you can say "nuh-uh these traps stop everything" but it seems rare these days for the types of cards people worry about to not stop a monster in some way

i think this points more towards the huge imbalance of power between monsters and every other type of card.
the power of monster effects can mean that a specific monster dying destroys an entire strategy
it can also mean that your opponent now has free reign to perform their own monster based strategy in a single turn because you couldn't get rid of theirs

unfortunately this makes the creation of easy to use S/Ts to stop monsters quite difficult, as it can be just as easy to use them after setting up.

that said I don't think generic counter type cards are inherently bad for the game, but I think they would be more acceptable among players if getting countered once didn't often spell doom for them in this day and age

Hope in the Interstice
7th November 2015, 08:22 AM
unfortunately this makes the creation of easy to use S/Ts to stop monsters quite difficult, as it can be just as easy to use them after setting up.
A while back, I was thinking up a few CaCs in my head and I came to the realisation that Spell/Traps are much harder to fairly hamper than monsters. Monsters can either have their stats lowered, their effects negated, or be destroyed or otherwise removed from the field or any combination thereof. Spells and Traps can't really be "weakened" like monsters can; you can only negate and/or destroy.

Mofiz
7th November 2015, 10:31 AM
ignoring the issue of these types of cards being interactive or not, it's interesting that the idea of a counter trap that stops a monster from doing its thing has such a huge impact on the game when cards like bottomless have existed for a while and haven't had nearly the amount of complaints. yes, you can say "nuh-uh these traps stop everything" but it seems rare these days for the types of cards people worry about to not stop a monster in some way

i think this points more towards the huge imbalance of power between monsters and every other type of card.
the power of monster effects can mean that a specific monster dying destroys an entire strategy
it can also mean that your opponent now has free reign to perform their own monster based strategy in a single turn because you couldn't get rid of theirs

unfortunately this makes the creation of easy to use S/Ts to stop monsters quite difficult, as it can be just as easy to use them after setting up.

that said I don't think generic counter type cards are inherently bad for the game, but I think they would be more acceptable among players if getting countered once didn't often spell doom for them in this day and age

The difference between Summon stoppers and Bottomless/Torrential are pretty obvious though. Monsters can survive Bottomless, can trigger their on-summon effects, be Destruction Immune or have a quick effect to release escape. No Monster besides God, Starform and Yuma can prevent Solemns to happen.

Yes, a single Trap of that kind can kill a monster and destroy an entire strategy and that's pretty much why I find those unbalanced. Everyone deserves to get attemps to do regular stuff like Summoning big stuff but with cards like Solemns or simple Monster Removal Trap Spam, you can't do a thing. Meta Decks often don't care like other Decks because of their Synergy and floating effects. They lose a Summon and attempt for a second. With limited Summons, that is pretty hard though, especially for non-Spam Decks.

Traps are there to disturb strategies, not denying that. And that's not even a bad thing, but it should leave a good opportunity to be played around. Since those Traps are negating practically everything, you don't get a way to play around it, hence why every possible move will fail. I like Traps that counter excessive methods like Spamming a whole field and going for an OTK or Destroy a whole field. And everytime I run my monsters into a Starlight Road or even a Judgment of Anubis I just laugh because well... I kinda deserve it. I could have played any other tactic but since I went for a reckless mass removal (which isn't a must compared to summoning anything at all or using any monster effect) I had that coming.

Dread Kaiser
7th November 2015, 04:26 PM
Can we just rename this entire thread to "Generic Mofiz Discussion" or something...

Mofiz
7th November 2015, 04:29 PM
Can we just rename this entire thread to "Generic Mofiz Discussion" or something...

You have to be more specific on that one.

Pendulum
7th November 2015, 04:37 PM
Can we just rename this entire thread to "Generic Mofiz Discussion" or something...


You have to be more specific on that one.

"Specific Mofiz Discussion"

Mofiz
7th November 2015, 05:16 PM
"Specific Mofiz Discussion"

...Well played.

Deadborder
7th November 2015, 07:08 PM
A while back, I was thinking up a few CaCs in my head and I came to the realisation that Spell/Traps are much harder to fairly hamper than monsters. Monsters can either have their stats lowered, their effects negated, or be destroyed or otherwise removed from the field or any combination thereof. Spells and Traps can't really be "weakened" like monsters can; you can only negate and/or destroy.

Additionally, I think part of the reason konami's "gotten away with" improving monsters hugely over S/Ts is because they know most people prefer monsters over everything else. To be fair, most of the game's interactions focus on monsters, but I'd really be interested in seeing a potential future of the game where the relative power of monsters, spells, and traps was more or less equal. It's kinda unfortunate that when we think of decks reliant on Spells or Traps rather than monsters, only a few examples come to mind, with most decks not named Spellbooks being stuff like Chain Burn (which, while entertaining enough to use and not necessarily purely "autopilot", is fairly one-note).

SynjoDeonecros
7th November 2015, 10:01 PM
What are your guys' opinions of Grand Horn of Heaven becoming a factor in the next meta decks? It's going for over a dollar on TCGPlayer, and I know several people at the sneak I went to were clamoring for them and amazed that they were just regular commons, so I'm curious to see if they'll impact the meta, at all...

Jolan
7th November 2015, 10:04 PM
It flat-out destroys some decks due to the ''end the Main Phase'' bit, but the penalty of giving your opponent a free Draw might be a bit too much for some people.

SynjoDeonecros
7th November 2015, 10:27 PM
What kind of decks get destroyed by that clause, may I ask?

manestor
9th November 2015, 07:16 PM
What kind of decks get destroyed by that clause, may I ask?

Any deck that can't summon during the battle phase like yang zings or kozmos or during your opponent's turm like psy frames and again yang zings.
Even if you get to draw a card, if you can't play it that turn it's pretty devastating. You don't even get a main phase 2.

"If "Great Horn of Heaven" is activated during your opponent's Main Phase 1, after their Main Phase ends, they must choose to either conduct their Battle Phase or proceed to the End Phase.[1]" http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Grand_Horn_of_Heaven#cite_note-No.12023-0

I'll definitely be using those.

Mofiz
9th November 2015, 07:29 PM
Any deck that can't summon during the battle phase like yang zings or kozmos or during your opponent's turm like psy frames and again yang zings.
Even if you get to draw a card, if you can't play it that turn it's pretty devastating. You don't even get a main phase 2.

"If "Great Horn of Heaven" is activated during your opponent's Main Phase 1, after their Main Phase ends, they must choose to either conduct their Battle Phase or proceed to the End Phase.[1]" http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Grand_Horn_of_Heaven#cite_note-No.12023-0

I'll definitely be using those.

They can use their Main Phase... It just means that they have to conduct their Battle Phase too, they just won't use it to attack

SynjoDeonecros
9th November 2015, 08:07 PM
So, I noticed that Bunbuku's doubled in price since the last time I checked. So, I'm assuming Majespecters topped San Jose? If so, then they're going to be extremely hard to get a hold of, and will be big in the next meta...

Dread Kaiser
9th November 2015, 10:26 PM
So, I noticed that Bunbuku's doubled in price since the last time I checked. So, I'm assuming Majespecters topped San Jose? If so, then they're going to be extremely hard to get a hold of, and will be big in the next meta...

a Deck that is mostly commons and rares is not going to be hard to get ahold of, no matter how well they do

SynjoDeonecros
9th November 2015, 10:59 PM
You forget that Cat and Cyclone or Super and Bunbuku and Tornado are Ultra. They're going to be hard to get a hold of. As I said, Bunbuku is already double its initial price. It's going to be like with Burning Abyss, where the key cards are uber expensive, despite the rest being easy to get.

Dread Kaiser
10th November 2015, 12:50 AM
You forget that Cat and Cyclone or Super and Bunbuku and Tornado are Ultra. They're going to be hard to get a hold of. As I said, Bunbuku is already double its initial price. It's going to be like with Burning Abyss, where the key cards are uber expensive, despite the rest being easy to get.

I forgot nothing
burning abyss made those Secrets, Supers and Ultras are much easier to get then Secrets
Supers and Ultras are not hard to get. Already got 2 Tornados and a cat, just from pulls. Which I promptly sold

Tihus
10th November 2015, 01:03 AM
I reckon that D/D/Ds might make an impact especially with Exciton gone and their side decking potential

SynjoDeonecros
10th November 2015, 01:09 AM
I forgot nothing
burning abyss made those Secrets, Supers and Ultras are much easier to get then Secrets
Supers and Ultras are not hard to get. Already got 2 Tornados and a cat, just from pulls. Which I promptly sold

Yeah, right; you haven't seen my boyfriend try to pull cards. Or me, for that matter. No, they're going to be hard to get, and the price hikes are going to make things worse. I'm sorry, but this is just the last straw for my boyfriend, he's had too many decks he's been interested in turned into high-cost tournament-winning decks that he won't ever be able to complete until they're long out of fashion. I won't be surprised if he ends up quitting the game, altogether, because of this frustration.

Dread Kaiser
10th November 2015, 01:12 AM
....Did he Honestly expect a competitive deck to be cheap?

SynjoDeonecros
10th November 2015, 01:16 AM
....Did he Honestly expect a competitive deck to be cheap?

When he got interested in Gladiator Beasts, Fire Fists, and Burning Abyss, it was unknown what they'd be like in tournaments, and when he got interested in Majespecters they were dying off in the OCG and weren't as talked about in the TCG, so we expected a chance to get them cheap, or at least at a reasonable price. We never, EVER expected Raccoon to get shot up to $80+ in the few days after it was released in stores. Go check on TCGPlayer or Ebay, and you'll see what I'm talking about. He gets into these decks for reasons other than being competitive, and usually before they DO become competitive, so don't blame him for expecting Majespecters to be affordable.

Dread Kaiser
10th November 2015, 01:25 AM
When he got interested in Gladiator Beasts, Fire Fists, and Burning Abyss, it was unknown what they'd be like in tournaments, and when he got interested in Majespecters they were dying off in the OCG and weren't as talked about in the TCG, so we expected a chance to get them cheap, or at least at a reasonable price. We never, EVER expected Raccoon to get shot up to $80+ in the few days after it was released in stores. Go check on TCGPlayer or Ebay, and you'll see what I'm talking about. He gets into these decks for reasons other than being competitive, and usually before they DO become competitive, so don't blame him for expecting Majespecters to be affordable.


you clearly weren't looking for much discussion on the topic then, everyone here knew exactly what Majespecters would do and subsequently, we knew what their prices would do the instant their rarities were confirmed
Yes, I can blame him for his lack of research into the subject

Majespectres are good
Why did they decline in the OCG? the competition was better
Here in the TCG? that competition is dead

do math, and you have a simple recipe for "Rising Prices"

SynjoDeonecros
10th November 2015, 01:36 AM
Jeez, you're just mister sunshine, aren't you? You'd like to piss all over a budget player for hoping a deck might be affordable for him but ended up not being the case because it proved tourney-worthy over here. And I came here and away from Pojo to avoid shit like this. Yes, Majespecters are good, but again, there wasn't as much talk about them in the TCG as you think there were, at least from what I could find on here and on Pojo. There is no way, NO WAY IN HELL that we would've known that Bunbuku would hit over $80. And you saying that they're "easy" to acquire through pulls is stupid and shows just how biased and ignorant you are on this. Not everyone has the golden touch you have for pulling cards; he only got a single Tornado during sneaks after buying in twice, and that was the ONLY high-priced card he pulled; everything else were crap foils or, mostly, no foils at all. He bought 6 packs when the set came out in stores, and what was the ONLY foil he got? Cyclone. We only managed to snag the Cats and Cyclones we did through TCGPlayer because they were relatively low priced for presale, back when Tornado was $20 and Bunbuku was only $40, HALF of what it is now.

So yeah, if you're blaming him for "lack of research", then you need to sit down and shut up and reevaluate your position in the game.

Dread Kaiser
10th November 2015, 01:46 AM
Jeez, you're just mister sunshine, aren't you? You'd like to piss all over a budget player for hoping a deck might be affordable for him but ended up not being the case because it proved tourney-worthy over here. And I came here and away from Pojo to avoid shit like this. Yes, Majespecters are good, but again, there wasn't as much talk about them in the TCG as you think there were, at least from what I could find on here and on Pojo. There is no way, NO WAY IN HELL that we would've known that Bunbuku would hit over $80. And you saying that they're "easy" to acquire through pulls is stupid and shows just how biased and ignorant you are on this. Not everyone has the golden touch you have for pulling cards; he only got a single Tornado during sneaks after buying in twice, and that was the ONLY high-priced card he pulled; everything else were crap foils or, mostly, no foils at all. He bought 6 packs when the set came out in stores, and what was the ONLY foil he got? Cyclone. We only managed to snag the Cats and Cyclones we did through TCGPlayer because they were relatively low priced for presale, back when Tornado was $20 and Bunbuku was only $40, HALF of what it is now.

So yeah, if you're blaming him for "lack of research", then you need to sit down and shut up and reevaluate your position in the game.

From the sounds of things your "Research" was skimming though Forums for conversations about a deck that wasn't here yet...
You clearly didn't think to simply ask about it on any given Yugioh board then, as anyone should have been able to give you the reply I gave above.

or Look at the YGOrg Disqus back when that was a thing, Mofiz gave a few rants on why Majespectres were amoung the most annoying things in the game

Also how am I being Biased and Ignorant? Especially since I actually KNEW these things (pretty sure thats the opposite of Ignorance right there) and its hard to be "Biased" on objective facts. Honestly I was surprised they even had Commons. Plenty of people were expecting a repeat of Yang Zing.

so yes, I am blaming him for lack of Research. Dunno what else to call it. there are VERY Rarely any surprises in the TCG Meta since the OCG Effectively playtests most of it for us. Not even getting into Online Simulators. There is only 1 excuse for not knowing how good a deck is ahead of time, and thats if it was TCG Original.

SynjoDeonecros
10th November 2015, 01:57 AM
Whatever, I still say you're biased, stupid, and bigoted with this, but I'm through arguing. Thanks for being the first person on my ignore list.

Dread Kaiser
10th November 2015, 01:59 AM
Whatever, I still say you're biased, stupid, and bigoted with this, but I'm through arguing. Thanks for being the first person on my ignore list.
You keep using those words, and I don't think you know what they mean....

Sanokal
10th November 2015, 02:00 AM
Cool it both of you. This isn't the first time either of your tempers have gotten you in trouble.
Not that I can say much on either case since I have a terrible fuse...and one each of Bunbuku and Nekomata from the box (exam treat, plus I just wanted D/Ds real quick).
In seriousness though, the hype train was always gonna be running for Majespecters regardless for how long they end up being meta. All I can say is stick at it, assuming that you have access to a local card store (did I remember you saying that yours is an hour away though?) You don't need to finish it right away.
On a final note, Synch, and I mean no offense, but you always seem to be looking for stuff for your boyfriend; given that trend isn't it about time that he learned to try and ask these questions himself?

SynjoDeonecros
10th November 2015, 04:15 AM
Cool it both of you. This isn't the first time either of your tempers have gotten you in trouble.
Not that I can say much on either case since I have a terrible fuse...and one each of Bunbuku and Nekomata from the box (exam treat, plus I just wanted D/Ds real quick).
In seriousness though, the hype train was always gonna be running for Majespecters regardless for how long they end up being meta. All I can say is stick at it, assuming that you have access to a local card store (did I remember you saying that yours is an hour away though?) You don't need to finish it right away.
On a final note, Synch, and I mean no offense, but you always seem to be looking for stuff for your boyfriend; given that trend isn't it about time that he learned to try and ask these questions himself?

He doesn't have access to the sites that I do; I have the Ebay account, the TCGPlayer account, etc.; the only card account he has access to is Troll and Toad, and that was because I was helping him sell a bunch of his collection for the Majespecter anticipation. If he wants to join this forum, he's more than welcome to do so, but he basically doesn't have the resources that I do in order to invest in this kind of thing.

And yeah, the nearest card store is an hour away, and they have wonky sell/buy/trade options; they only hold 3 copies of a card on their list at a time, only buy multiples of a card at one time if it's less than $5, otherwise it's only 1 copy at a time. Also, they are very restrictive on what cards they accept; not only does the card have to be near-mint, but it has to be from a specific set. That's why I wasn't able to sell them my Exciton Knight, last time we were up there; I had the LVAL version, they were only looking for the Mega Tin version.

Sanokal
10th November 2015, 04:43 AM
There aren't other players that frequent the store then?

SynjoDeonecros
10th November 2015, 05:04 AM
There are, but we usually aren't able to get there unless it's a sneak preview, or a weekday, when they're not hanging out in the store. And when I tried to trade during the sneak, this time, no one wanted Exciton Knight, because they knew it would be banned, soon.

Yuuri
10th November 2015, 05:14 AM
Are we talking about OCG or TCG? Whichever that case...

TCG: Burning Abyss, Yang Zing, Speedroid variants, Pendulum Magician, Clowns, and maybe PSYFrame.

OCG: More clowns (unless konami hits them), Monarchs, and whatever else they release in January.

Sanokal
10th November 2015, 05:41 AM
There are, but we usually aren't able to get there unless it's a sneak preview, or a weekday, when they're not hanging out in the store. And when I tried to trade during the sneak, this time, no one wanted Exciton Knight, because they knew it would be banned, soon.

Ah. My store is a fair bus ride away, true, but it's right next to my uni so I'm not really quite used to that problem when trying to specifically deckbuild. That certainly presents a problem if you can't get known there.

Momma_Sophie
11th November 2015, 01:32 PM
What the...?

Ooooooh! Now I understand!
You were joking all this time, right? Ah, now I understand you were just putting up a show.
I was believing you were serious. But this little sentence just unveiled you.

Now seriously: I think you just lost all of your credibility.

Because of what I believe? Belief has never had credibility in the first place.
To rob me of my personal credibility because of a statement that originally had none in the first place is asinine.

--Sophie

Pendulum
11th November 2015, 01:40 PM
Because of what I believe? Belief has never had credibility in the first place.
To rob me of my personal credibility because of a statement that originally had none in the first place is asinine.

--Sophie

Oh gosh, no. Not again.
No, no. I won't fall for it this time. I won't argue with you. I just won't.
Your opinion is that cards don't need to be hit because everything has an answer. Mine isn't. We have been through why already.
I think I'm doing a favour to everyone by closing this discussion right here and right now.

Momma_Sophie
11th November 2015, 01:44 PM
Oh gosh, no. Not again.
No, no. I won't fall for it this time. I won't argue with you. I just won't.
Your opinion is that cards don't need to be hit because everything has an answer. Mine isn't. We have been through why already.
I think I'm doing a favour to everyone by closing this discussion right here and right now.

Then, don't ridicule me. Goodbye, oh-benevolent-one. May your actions against the anti-heroic bully "Sophie" bring you much love, respect and sex.

--Sophie.

Dread Kaiser
11th November 2015, 03:30 PM
Just drop it pendulum, if he hasn't gotten it by now, he never will.

SynjoDeonecros
11th November 2015, 03:51 PM
God, people, don't start this again...

Pendulum
11th November 2015, 03:54 PM
Just drop it pendulum, if he hasn't gotten it by now, he never will.

Yeah, I did drop it.
The funny thing is, when I checked his post, it was only: "Then, don't ridicule me. Goodbye." and its signature. And I now realized he then edited it with that bullshit just to provoke me, I guess.

Momma_Sophie
11th November 2015, 04:36 PM
Yeah, I did drop it.
The funny thing is, when I checked his post, it was only: "Then, don't ridicule me. Goodbye." and its signature. And I now realized he then edited it with that bullshit just to provoke me, I guess.

If that's how you choose to look at it.
I was actually sincere. Maybe if I place a smiley face, you will understand? Like this: :D

--Sophie.

- - - Updated - - -


God, people, don't start this again...

It never stopped; I had non-Internet life things to do.

--Sophie.

Ciphermask
11th November 2015, 04:58 PM
I feel like this will probably be the last time I come to this thread, it doesn't seem too pleasant.

SynjoDeonecros
11th November 2015, 08:39 PM
So, it's official; Majespecters have won San Jose, and are thus growing in price, which means they're going to be big until the Pendulum structure comes out.

LolsterXD97
11th November 2015, 09:09 PM
My predictions for next meta are:
Kozmo.
Super Quantum (They can do A LOT of stuff, and we are getting them in WR soon or later).
EMEm, but weakened since we don't have unbanned Shock and Sorcerer (Yet), but they can access Infinity (Aza is here or still not?).
Majispecter.

And I'm counting on that we are getting after a while the cancer cards like Solemn Notice and Airdane too.

Pendulum
11th November 2015, 09:14 PM
My predictions for next meta are:
Kozmo.
Super Quantum (They can do A LOT of stuff, and we are getting them in WR soon or later).
EMEm, but weakened since we don't have unbanned Shock and Sorcerer (Yet), but they can access Infinity (Aza is here or still not?).
Majispecter.

And I'm counting on that we are getting after a while the cancer cards like Solemn Notice and Airdane too.

We don't have azathoth yet and we don't have a clue if it will be released soon. but it isn't that important becasue we still have 3 ptol.

LolsterXD97
11th November 2015, 09:15 PM
We don't have azathoth yet and we don't have a clue if it will be released soon. but it isn't that important becasue we still have 3 ptol.

It can still block any handtrap from reacting to that ptol hypotetically (Yes, there isn't 1st turn Shock Lock here, but there is still 1st turn Infinity, or will we follow OCG and use Pleiades for being faster?).

Pendulum
11th November 2015, 09:17 PM
It can still block any handtrap from reacting to that ptol hypotetically.

Well, that may be true. But even so, look at OCG when they still had ptol. I know they had shock to lock monster effects, meaning it would block hand traps. But even so, ptol has no excuses to be alive.

LolsterXD97
11th November 2015, 09:22 PM
Well, that may be true. But even so, look at OCG when they still had ptol. I know they had shock to lock monster effects, meaning it would block hand traps. But even so, ptol has no excuses to be alive.

Yep, Ptol will have to be hit by the banhammer soon or later.

But still remember that OCG will ALWAYS have a way to broke cards we didn't think to be broken until a new booster pack was launched:

Trick Clown appeared? Thousand Blades suddenly became the most hated level 4 after that.

Infinity appeared? Ptol started to be abused.

Infinity don't fast enough? Let's use Pleiades and troll the opponent.

Ptol banned? Just let's use that Azaroth which conveniently has an effect that block hand traps and wasn't very noticed until now (At least for me).

Pendulum
11th November 2015, 09:33 PM
Yep, Ptol will have to be hit by the banhammer soon or later.

But still remember that OCG will ALWAYS have a way to broke cards we didn't think to be broken until a new booster pack was launched:

Trick Clown appeared? Thousand Blades suddenly became the most hated level 4 after that.

Infinity appeared? Ptol started to be abused.

Infinity don't fast enough? Let's use Pleiades and troll the opponent.

Ptol banned? Just let's use that Azaroth which conveniently has an effect that block hand traps and wasn't very noticed until now (At least for me).

The thing is, OCG releases the cards first, so they have the chance to break them faster than we do. However, we (TCG) have a lot of people that tries to break them using the simulators. But OCG people manage to find that perfect strategy always first, somehow. Except for TCG premiers, of course.
If ptol gets banned in TCG, clowns will lose some power. They still have Rafflesia, but bye-bye pleiades and infinity. And we don't have shock and, as mentioned above, we don't have azatoth.

Momma_Sophie
11th November 2015, 11:08 PM
Are we just not going to mention Psy-Frame? Quite sure they are "meta(?)" potential.

Dread Kaiser
12th November 2015, 12:32 AM
The thing is, OCG releases the cards first, so they have the chance to break them faster than we do. However, we (TCG) have a lot of people that tries to break them using the simulators. But OCG people manage to find that perfect strategy always first, somehow. Except for TCG premiers, of course.
If ptol gets banned in TCG, clowns will lose some power. They still have Rafflesia, but bye-bye pleiades and infinity. And we don't have shock and, as mentioned above, we don't have azatoth.

and no Nukeroach

Rygoken
12th November 2015, 04:50 PM
Do DDD have a chance I love to play the deck but I'm not good at guageing what's meta and what's not..

Dread Kaiser
12th November 2015, 05:01 PM
Do DDD have a chance I love to play the deck but I'm not good at guageing what's meta and what's not..

In the TCG, if we GOT THEM ALL...yeah they would have had a chance before clownROFL happens. that ain't happening though
OCG, made some appearences but EMem > Everything. Tier 0 format. Run EMem or Lose on turn 3