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Aromaiden
15th November 2015, 05:44 AM
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/b/be/WaveringEyes-CORE-EN-C-1E.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20150804082929

Spell/Quck-Play
Destroy as many cards in each player's Pendulum Zones as possible, then apply these effects, in sequence, depending on the number of cards destroyed by this effect.
● 1 or more: Inflict 500 damage to your opponent.
● 2 or more: You can add 1 Pendulum Monster from your Main Deck to your hand.
● 3 or more: You can banish 1 card on the field.
● 4: You can add 1 "Wavering Eyes" from your Deck to your hand.
Gosh where to begin with this card. It's a quick-play with no OPT restriction with several good effects that all benefit you while possibly crippling your opponent. Usually used for it's second effect it helps load your Extra Deck with Pendulums while allowing you to search any Pendulum monster. What do you all think of this card? I could honestly see it maybe getting hit in the future.

Dread Kaiser
15th November 2015, 05:57 AM
Its an OK card, made stupid by the fact that it can search ANY Pendulum and that other Pendulums (gee I wonder who) go off on destruction

If it had effects 2 and 3 switched. switched I'd be fine with it.
if things with stupid searching effects didn't go off I'd be fine with it

just one of those cards that ended up being WAY better then Intended, in the opposite Direction

It needs to be errata'd or banned, the stupid it enables is out of control and more and more cards will be made that go off on destruction and the stupid will just increase

Dyson Sphere
15th November 2015, 06:01 AM
even though it can do a lot of stupid plays i dont see it getting banned

Hope in the Interstice
15th November 2015, 06:31 AM
Its an OK card, made stupid by the fact that it can search ANY Pendulum and that other Pendulums (gee I wonder who) go off on destruction

If it had effects 2 and 3 switched. switched I'd be fine with it.
if things with stupid searching effects didn't go off I'd be fine with it

just one of those cards that ended up being WAY better then Intended, in the opposite Direction

It needs to be errata'd or banned, the stupid it enables is out of control and more and more cards will be made that go off on destruction and the stupid will just increase
Not to mention Wavering Eyes has subsequently made many other cards, like Pendulum Impenetrable and Magical Spring, vastly obsolete.

Dread Kaiser
15th November 2015, 07:03 AM
even though it can do a lot of stupid plays i dont see it getting banned

You can do a lot of stupid plays, and they will only get stupider as time goes on. its not much different then cards like Graceful Charity or Sixth Sense, Nice effect with a Cost that becomes just as, if not more beneficial then the actual effect.

Every Pendulum deck, save Qli, that has mattered thus far uses this. Hell I have seen Clown decks that use this @3 as the only spells in the whole deck. Its provides a massive speed boost and will only get more retarded as they make cards like Ariadne (and they WILL).

This thing is basically the ROTA of every pendulum deck, if they are to be hit, this is on top of the list

Hope in the Interstice
15th November 2015, 07:26 AM
This thing is basically the ROTA of every pendulum deck, if they are to be hit, this is on top of the list
Actually, it's far worse than any Reinforcement of the Army. All Reinforcement did was add a card to your hand. Wavering Eyes is far more powerful and versatile than it really should be; as you said, it triggers your Pendulum Monsters and also acts as removal. As it removes your opponent's Pendulum Scales as well, you can go +1 with just the first two effects alone and every other effect there breaks even more and more to the point that it sets you up to do it all over again. This is Reinforcement of the Army crossed with Icarus Attack in a Quick-Play Spell.

Mofiz
15th November 2015, 10:08 AM
A card originally created to slow down opposing Scales, but ended in being one of the most broken searchers ever. It may seem harmless that it has a "cost" of destroying two cards to search but since Pendulums are immortal, this "cost" doesn't exist. It's basically a card that searches out your entire Deck. Even Sangan was less broken than this, despite it searching everything up to 1500 ATK, this ones condition is a joke and the Deck is the most broken we ever got since... ever?
And as if Pendulum mechanic wasn't a stupid idea from the beginning, many cards had to have trigger effects when being destroyed so they do even further advantage.
Either the search effect has to completely disappear, the card has to be banned or Pendulum Mechanic itself has to get a very strong nerf. Second is the more likely one.

Mystic TimeKeeper
15th November 2015, 10:19 AM
A card originally created to slow down opposing Scales, but ended in being one of the most broken searchers ever. It may seem harmless that it has a "cost" of destroying two cards to search but since Pendulums are immortal, this "cost" doesn't exist. It's basically a card that searches out your entire Deck. Even Sangan was less broken than this, despite it searching everything up to 1500 ATK, this ones condition is a joke and the Deck is the most broken we ever got since... ever?
And as if Pendulum mechanic wasn't a stupid idea from the beginning, many cards had to have trigger effects when being destroyed so they do even further advantage.
Either the search effect has to completely disappear, the card has to be banned or Pendulum Mechanic itself has to get a very strong nerf. Second is the more likely one.

If anything, we can hope TCG gets his act together since unlike OCG they cannot fall back on anime popularity that much so they do have to keep the game somewhat playable if they want to sell.

Mofiz
15th November 2015, 10:35 AM
If anything, we can hope TCG gets his act together since unlike OCG they cannot fall back on anime popularity that much so they do have to keep the game somewhat playable if they want to sell.

So far the last banlists of the TCG were far better than OCGs. We have less floodgates, No Shock, no Chain so it should turn out better after one format of hell.

Hope in the Interstice
15th November 2015, 11:38 AM
but since Pendulums are immortal
I'm going to cut you off right here. Pendulums are only effectively immortal as monsters. As spells/Scales, they are very much vulnerable and Wavering Eyes only replenishes them by one card. Igknights are proof that this alone ("alone" being the key word here) is hardly sufficient.

Sorry about that. Continue.

Mofiz
15th November 2015, 11:45 AM
I'm going to cut you off right here. Pendulums are only effectively immortal as monsters. As spells/Scales, they are very much vulnerable and Wavering Eyes only replenishes them by one card. Igknights are proof that this alone ("alone" being the key word here) is hardly sufficient.

Sorry about that. Continue.

Even the scales are immortal. You MST them, they come back as monsters. You think, you made them unable to Pendulum Summon and they just splash the second scale and Pendulum Summon the monster back. So you pretty much wasted a backrow hate for nothing. As the opponent, you can only do disadvantage destroying any kind of pendulum. And then the Pendulums that have on-destruction effects or on-summon effects. I can't even attack Majespectors because I know I will just suffer more from it. That's ridiculous.
Also Wavering is nothing comparable to Igknights. One searches one more Vanilla that can be used as a mat. The other searches out your entire Deck, a Deck filled with cards that have different effects and make even more advantage. Don't look down on a everything searcher. If there was a card that would state "Add one Monster card from your Deck to your hand" you would mostlikely see it as the most broken shit ever. And since Clowns ARE the most broken shit, a card like that makes little to no difference to Wavering Eyes.

Mystic TimeKeeper
15th November 2015, 11:48 AM
Even the scales are immortal. You MST them, they come back as monsters. You think, you made them unable to Pendulum Summon and they just splash the second scale and Pendulum Summon the monster back. So you pretty much wasted a backrow hate for nothing. As the opponent, you can only do disadvantage destroying any kind of pendulum. And then the Pendulums that have on-destruction effects or on-summon effects. I can't even attack Majespectors because I know I will just suffer more from it. That's ridiculous.
Also Wavering is nothing comparable to Igknights. One searches one more Vanilla that can be used as a mat. The other searches out your entire Deck, a Deck filled with cards that have different effects and make even more advantage. Don't look down on a everything searcher. If there was a card that would state "Add one Monster card from your Deck to your hand" you would mostlikely see it as the most broken shit ever. And since Clowns ARE the most broken shit, a card like that makes little to no difference to Wavering Eyes.

I say it is right in the fact that Pendulum are a lot less recyclable as spells, so unless you use Peasant there are little chances to get back Pendulum Monsters as scales, so in the unlikely scenario you manage to kill all the scales at least once there are good chances that your opponent will not be able to pendulum summon anymore (I almost did that once).

Mofiz
15th November 2015, 11:52 AM
I say it is right in the fact that Pendulum are a lot less recyclable as spells, so unless you use Peasant there are little chances to get back Pendulum Monsters as scales, so in the unlikely scenario you manage to kill all the scales at least once there are good chances that your opponent will not be able to pendulum summon anymore (I almost did that once).

I have yet to see a good Pendulum Deck that lost from me killing their Scales. I don't even try anymore and mostly go for Trishula.
If the avarage S/T hate is 1 card for 1 card, my hand is empty and they have no Scales. We are pretty much fucked at the same Level until he draws Scales and plusses 5 times. And in this scenario we assume that they don't use floaters.

Hope in the Interstice
15th November 2015, 11:58 AM
I have yet to see a good Pendulum Deck that lost from me killing their Scales. I don't even try anymore and mostly go for Trishula.
If the avarage S/T hate is 1 card for 1 card, my hand is empty and they have no Scales. We are pretty much fucked at the same Level until he draws Scales and plusses 5 times. And in this scenario we assume that they don't use floaters.
This is assuming they're running such a Pendulum deck in the first place, like and... well, . In every other case, you're overestimating Pendulums if you think destroying their Scales does nothing.

Mofiz
15th November 2015, 12:05 PM
This is assuming they're running such a Pendulum deck in the first place, like and... well, . In every other case, you're overestimating Pendulums if you think destroying their Scales does nothing.

Majespectors are not reliant on Scales. It's a midgame thing. You better destroy those face-downs instead of those Scales.
D/Ds aren't even Pendulums, the only Scale they use is Ragnarok for its effect.
Yosenju are Floodgaters.
Deskbot Scales float.
Magicians are also quite consistent. If you go on destroying all their Scales while they don't have Pendulum Call, you still lose many handcards. Hence why they were pretty much unbeatable in the meta.
And Qlis. Probably the only relevant Pendulum Deck that can be stopped with Scale Destruction if they don't have Apoqlipoth.

The rest isn't even consistent. The only thing Igknights could do was Key Beetle Xyz and that was nerfed.
Since Magicians got their Deck, Pendulums dominated the game. Not only EmEMs. And let's not forget how Qlis wrecked everything. If Scale hate would work that well, they wouldn't be that great. And now Dinomists could become a threatening side-engine since you can't really destroy their Scales.

Pendulum
15th November 2015, 12:17 PM
So far the last banlists of the TCG were far better than OCGs. We have less floodgates, No Shock, no Chain so it should turn out better after one format of hell.

No Nukeroach. I still think this is relevant because it's a cheap ass field-except-itself nuker.

Hope in the Interstice
15th November 2015, 12:30 PM
Majespectors are not reliant on Scales. It's a midgame thing. You better destroy those face-downs instead of those Scales.
They can't use their face-downs without monsters, of which they'll be in little supply if they can't use their Scales. I have used Majespecters myself and I know this well. Hell, they EXPLODE with scales. They're what give their plays longevity.


Deskbot Scales float.
Not into other scales, which isn't wholly relevant since the deck doesn't Pendulum Summon that much but, when it does, it hurts so it's good to nip them in the bud.


Magicians are also quite consistent. If you go on destroying all their Scales while they don't have Pendulum Call, you still lose many handcards. Hence why they were pretty much unbeatable in the meta.
That is true but, if they don't have their scales (which is hard, considering the blanket protection and the fact Peasant Dragon Magician can keep the hand with at least one backup Wisdom-Eye Magician), they'll crumble easily. My point still stands.


And Qlis. Probably the only relevant Pendulum Deck that can be stopped with Scale Destruction if they don't have Apoqlipoth.
True.


And now Dinomists could become a threatening side-engine since you can't really destroy their Scales.
Well, they destroy their own scales and Dinomist Charge is a mandatory once-per-turn. The deck is sturdy but all it takes is being outsped for their defences to fail. You need to hit them hard and hit them fast, like Quasar or one of its equivalents.

Pendulum
15th November 2015, 12:33 PM
Not into other scales, which isn't wholly relevant since the deck doesn't Pendulum Summon that much but, when it does, it hurts so it's good to nip them in the bud.

Use 005's effect to SS 002 from the graveyard and add a scale from the deck to your hand. I think Deskbot scales' floating effect is really powerful. And I use Wavering Eyes to trigger them frequently.

Eternal Dragon Of ChaOZ
15th November 2015, 12:38 PM
Everyone I knew was running 3 of these in Qli last format. It's a strong card.

Hope in the Interstice
15th November 2015, 12:40 PM
Use 005's effect to SS 002 from the graveyard and add a scale from the deck to your hand. I think Deskbot scales' floating effect is really powerful. And I use Wavering Eyes to trigger them frequently.
I wholeheartedly agree. Okay, never mind that front. At least until I remember why I disagree in the first place.

Pendulum
15th November 2015, 12:43 PM
Everyone I knew was running 3 of these in Qli last format. It's a strong card.

It works in Qli because you can activate any two scales, destroy them with Wavering Eyes, search Scout, use Scout to search another scale (Monolith, for instance), set that scale, pendulum summon the destroyed two scales and tribute them for level 7+ Qli in your hand. Since Monolith was the other scale, during the End Phase, draw 2. This as an opening move is brutal.

Mofiz
15th November 2015, 12:43 PM
They can't use their face-downs without monsters, of which they'll be in little supply if they can't use their Scales. I have used Majespecters myself and I know this well. Hell, they EXPLODE with scales. They're what give their plays longevity.


Not into other scales, which isn't wholly relevant since the deck doesn't Pendulum Summon that much but, when it does, it hurts so it's good to nip them in the bud.


That is true but, if they don't have their scales (which is hard, considering the blanket protection and the fact Peasant Dragon Magician can keep the hand with at least one backup Wisdom-Eye Magician), they'll crumble easily. My point still stands.


True.


Well, they destroy their own scales and Dinomist Charge is a mandatory once-per-turn. The deck is sturdy but all it takes is being outsped for their defences to fail. You need to hit them hard and hit them fast, like Quasar or one of its equivalents.

With every monster Majespectors summon they GET a face-down. How do you even intend on getting rid of them... Pendulums only gives them more advantage. But if you have a Monster you get a free face-down. And it's impossible to get rid of the monster before getting rid of the face-downs, they are immune to all relevant things so the only way they will leave the field is through their Traps. Also anyone would go for the face-downs, simply because Tempest is way more threatening than a Scale. You would have to waste your S/T hate on them while not making any advantage BUT Spectors are all 2 in 1 cards so they are safe. The best you can do agains them is baiting as many face-downs or straight killing them which doesn't end well that often. You either need to get the advantage quickly or you can just give up. Clowns can bait enough of those but those are bigger cancer anyway.

If you kill Deskbots they either add one or Special Summon 002 that searches for a Scale. Also, they indeed do Pendulum Summon quite often. The moment you summon a 003, your hand is pretty much filled, so you go for the Scales.

To Magicians, what do you intend on doing after using most of your hand for Scale hate? Let's say, you go first and drew a Twin Twister and something similar. You killed all their Scales including their Peasent Dragon and now both of you are pretty handless, with the difference that they probably did some advantage meanwhile because of their consistency. It's just postponing their Pendulum Summon if your next Draw doesn't OTK.
The only Decks that could somewhat pull a fight agains them were Dank Law banishing and Atlantean OTK.

Dinomists destroy themselves to protect ALL other cards. If you go Twin Twister on one of their Scales and a face-down, they can suicide themselves for it. Which is pretty resistent and annoying if you like to nuke S/Ts away. Also it's not quite a Deck yet, it's just there. If it ends like this, it will be just a failed attempt like Igknights.

Hope in the Interstice
15th November 2015, 12:54 PM
With every monster Majespectors summon they GET a face-down. How do you even intend on getting rid of them... Pendulums only gives them more advantage. But if you have a Monster you get a free face-down. And it's impossible to get rid of the monster before getting rid of the face-downs, they are immune to all relevant things so the only way they will leave the field is through their Traps. Also anyone would go for the face-downs, simply because Tempest is way more threatening than a Scale. You would have to waste your S/T hate on them while not making any advantage BUT Spectors are all 2 in 1 cards so they are safe. The best you can do agains them is baiting as many face-downs or straight killing them which doesn't end well that often. You either need to get the advantage quickly or you can just give up. Clowns can bait enough of those but those are bigger cancer anyway.
Just as Majespecters tend to be two cards for the price of 1, their best backrow cards are two-for-one removal. You kill their advantage by killing their scales. I'd rather go for their scales than their backrow because I'm well aware that their backrow needs monsters to feed it. Same principle as "shoot the medic".


If you kill Deskbots they either add one or Special Summon 002 that searches for a Scale. Also, they indeed do Pendulum Summon quite often. The moment you summon a 003, your hand is pretty much filled, so you go for the Scales.
As someone who religiously plays Deskbots... not really. It's not really hard but you make it sound like a finger-snap effort.


To Magicians, what do you intend on doing after using most of your hand for Scale hate?
Countering Pendulum Summoning doesn't necessarily mean using cards in such frivolous ways. However, you're right in other aspects since the deck is insanely strong with its scales so I'll concede here.


Dinomists destroy themselves to protect ALL other cards. If you go Twin Twister on one of their Scales and a face-down, they can suicide themselves for it. Which is pretty resistent and annoying if you like to nuke S/Ts away. Also it's not quite a Deck yet, it's just there. If it ends like this, it will be just a failed attempt like Igknights.
Yes they protect all their cards but I'm talking about just their scales right now, and not every single card is Twin Twister. You're right in that nukes are hard and they can fend them off—speaking as someone who dove right into them when they came out on DevPro—but they can't keep that up forever if you just keep on the pressure.

Mofiz
15th November 2015, 01:21 PM
Just as Majespecters tend to be two cards for the price of 1, their best backrow cards are two-for-one removal. You kill their advantage by killing their scales. I'd rather go for their scales than their backrow because I'm well aware that their backrow needs monsters to feed it. Same principle as "shoot the medic".


As someone who religiously plays Deskbots... not really. It's not really hard but you make it sound like a finger-snap effort.


Countering Pendulum Summoning doesn't necessarily mean using cards in such frivolous ways. However, you're right in other aspects since the deck is insanely strong with its scales so I'll concede here.


Yes they protect all their cards but I'm talking about just their scales right now, and not every single card is Twin Twister. You're right in that nukes are hard and they can fend them off—speaking as someone who dove right into them when they came out on DevPro—but they can't keep that up forever if you just keep on the pressure.

You have to consider that your own monsters also require more than just one card. They wouldn't use their face-downs on a Shaddow Mist but on a Dark Law. Something that needs more cost. Hence why Divine Wrath or other "costy" cards are still worth it, even if the cost doesn't necessarily float.
Also, removing their Scales doesn't mean, you remove their monsters. They already summoned something, hence why they have the face-down in the first place. Going for the Scales but running into the backrow makes you unable to play at all in your turn, except if you have enough to bait, which is a question of consistency and swarm ability and if you have always enough you probably run one of the meta Decks. Disturbing opponents plays doesn't help much when you can't do much yourself.

Actually, it really is that easy. Not first turn but all the Deskbot Decks I faced so far were able to make stupidly large amount of Advantage during one of their Turns only. Just having 003, 004 or Machine Duplication while your opponent doesn't have a Veiler means a LOT of searching.

Against Dimonist Scales you either use nuking cards (like Twister or similar) which will make you have the advantage, MST which is... just fair and then non-destrucive targeting effects which will be fend off too. They are nothing special at the moment, they lack cards that do something at all, similar to Ignkights only less boring but if they get 1,2 cards that have actually field presense, they could be quite annoying. I don't even try to kill their Scales but just winning as fast as possible so they make as less advantage as possible.

Hope in the Interstice
16th November 2015, 02:03 AM
You have to consider that your own monsters also require more than just one card. They wouldn't use their face-downs on a Shaddow Mist but on a Dark Law. Something that needs more cost. Hence why Divine Wrath or other "costy" cards are still worth it, even if the cost doesn't necessarily float.
That is true in quite a few cases but not all of them. Sometimes, even a single Level 4 monster is enough of a threat on its own.


Also, removing their Scales doesn't mean, you remove their monsters. They already summoned something, hence why they have the face-down in the first place. Going for the Scales but running into the backrow makes you unable to play at all in your turn, except if you have enough to bait, which is a question of consistency and swarm ability and if you have always enough you probably run one of the meta Decks. Disturbing opponents plays doesn't help much when you can't do much yourself.
It does help much if your opponent can't make any other plays thereafter. They can only keep up the tribute removal for so long before they have nothing else and, with how weak the Majespecters are, even your typical Normal Summon—even a Vanishing Lanius—is enough to threaten them. It's not uncommon to render their backrow useless by attacking into their only Majespecter and then setting up your board. By reducing them to two-for-one plays, they're going to dry out far before you do.


Actually, it really is that easy. Not first turn but all the Deskbot Decks I faced so far were able to make stupidly large amount of Advantage during one of their Turns only. Just having 003, 004 or Machine Duplication while your opponent doesn't have a Veiler means a LOT of searching.
Indeed. Deskbots are very frightening when they go off.


Against Dimonist Scales you either use nuking cards (like Twister or similar) which will make you have the advantage, MST which is... just fair and then non-destrucive targeting effects which will be fend off too. They are nothing special at the moment, they lack cards that do something at all, similar to Ignkights only less boring but if they get 1,2 cards that have actually field presense, they could be quite annoying. I don't even try to kill their Scales but just winning as fast as possible so they make as less advantage as possible.
Sounds like a good strategy.

Mofiz
16th November 2015, 10:32 AM
That is true in quite a few cases but not all of them. Sometimes, even a single Level 4 monster is enough of a threat on its own.


It does help much if your opponent can't make any other plays thereafter. They can only keep up the tribute removal for so long before they have nothing else and, with how weak the Majespecters are, even your typical Normal Summon—even a Vanishing Lanius—is enough to threaten them. It's not uncommon to render their backrow useless by attacking into their only Majespecter and then setting up your board. By reducing them to two-for-one plays, they're going to dry out far before you do.


Indeed. Deskbots are very frightening when they go off.


Sounds like a good strategy.

Those Level 4s mostly have on summon effects. Stratos, Altair, Crobat, but still. A level 4 is only used as mat, you bett kill off the Xyz it summons instead itself.

Drying out isn't really the case here. So far Pure Majespector Decks topping in the TCG are more Trap orientated. search, floodgates and counter traps are their strategy, They don't even run Wavering Eyes, EVERY Pendulum Summon orientated Deck runs it thrice. That will keep your moves locked if you don't go for the backrow while they attack you bit by bit. It is a stupidly large advantage late game but they are not reliant on it.

flamegoon
26th November 2015, 09:00 AM
I'm fine with the card but in order for this card to stay they need to address the disgusting pendulum floaters like a certain fairy and flaming ice cream cone........

Yuuri
30th November 2015, 11:46 PM
I'm fine with the card but in order for this card to stay they need to address the disgusting pendulum floaters like a certain fairy and flaming ice cream cone........

While I can understand why Flame Mascot needs hit, would you mind explaining to me how Ariadne needs hits? The only thing I can think of it being useful for is adding a particular Counter Trap to the hand.

Such an effect can be powerful when used properly, but I fail to see how it is overpowered. Ariadne is not even splashable into every deck (at least, not that I am aware of; I have yet to see someone toss in Ariadne into a Pendulum deck that does not include a truckload of Counter Fairies...)

Sanokal
30th November 2015, 11:49 PM
While I can understand why Flame Mascot needs hit, would you mind explaining to me how Ariadne needs hits? The only thing I can think of it being useful for is adding a particular Counter Trap to the hand.

Such an effect can be powerful when used properly, but I fail to see how it is overpowered. Ariadne is not even splashable into every deck (at least, not that I am aware of; I have yet to see someone toss in Ariadne into a Pendulum deck that does not include a truckload of Counter Fairies...)

Like Plushfire, Ariadne isn't once per turn, so you can abuse it to search two or three powerful counter traps a turn. It'll be slightly better here then OCG since they have Solemn Judgment and we don't.

Mofiz
30th November 2015, 11:51 PM
While I can understand why Flame Mascot needs hit, would you mind explaining to me how Ariadne needs hits? The only thing I can think of it being useful for is adding a particular Counter Trap to the hand.

Such an effect can be powerful when used properly, but I fail to see how it is overpowered. Ariadne is not even splashable into every deck (at least, not that I am aware of; I have yet to see someone toss in Ariadne into a Pendulum deck that does not include a truckload of Counter Fairies...)

Are you fucking serious? Have you even looked at a single EmEM Decklist before saying this? Obviously the answer is no.

Yuuri
30th November 2015, 11:52 PM
Like Plushfire, Ariadne isn't once per turn, so you can abuse it to search two or three powerful counter traps a turn. It'll be slightly better here then OCG since they have Solemn Judgment and we don't.

Ahh, that makes sense. It has been a while since I looked at Ariadne, so I had completely forgotten about the lack of an OPT clause. Still, it does not seem utterly overpowered since players can still maneuver around whatever Counter Traps the opponent has.


Are you fucking serious? Have you even looked at a single EmEM Decklist before saying this? Obviously the answer is no.

Apparently, whomever I have played against lately had no idea what she/he was doing. And no, I just assumed it was all the same. I guess my hunch was correct, though.

Pendulum
30th November 2015, 11:54 PM
While I can understand why Flame Mascot needs hit, would you mind explaining to me how Ariadne needs hits? The only thing I can think of it being useful for is adding a particular Counter Trap to the hand.

Such an effect can be powerful when used properly, but I fail to see how it is overpowered. Ariadne is not even splashable into every deck (at least, not that I am aware of; I have yet to see someone toss in Ariadne into a Pendulum deck that does not include a truckload of Counter Fairies...)

It searches ridiculously strong cards. And it activates whenever it's destroyed. It also nullifies the cost for such card. And it's R4NK Spam fodder.

Mofiz
30th November 2015, 11:55 PM
Ahh, that makes sense. It has been a while since I looked at Ariadne, so I had completely forgotten about the lack of an OPT clause. Still, it does not seem utterly overpowered since players can still maneuver around whatever Counter Traps the opponent has.



Apparently, whomever I have played against lately had no idea what she/he was doing. And no, I just assumed it was all the same. I guess my hunch was correct, though.

We have a weekly update of Decklists of the OCG. Just look at the week Ariadne was revealed... and the following one... and the following one... and the following one. You will see 2-3 copies of it in almost every existing EmEM Deck.

Sanokal
30th November 2015, 11:58 PM
Ahh, that makes sense. It has been a while since I looked at Ariadne, so I had completely forgotten about the lack of an OPT clause. Still, it does not seem utterly overpowered since players can still maneuver around whatever Counter Traps the opponent has.

The problem is that they also have to maneuver around the Xyz monsters that Performages and Pals use, particularly Shock Master. Again, though, it'll be somewhat better here since we don't have Shock Master or Lavalval Chain, but on the other hand we WILL have easy-access Infinity.

Apparently, whomever I have played against lately had no idea what she/he was doing. And no, I just assumed it was all the same. I guess my hunch was correct, though.

Very possible. The bulk of cards at a time will usually be the same; Ariadne is a recent development.

Very mature response by the way.

Yuuri
1st December 2015, 12:17 AM
Very possible. The bulk of cards at a time will usually be the same; Ariadne is a recent development.

Very mature response by the way.

At this rate, EmEM decks will get a buff every time Konami creates a Level 4 Pendulum monster. It is almost hard to find the problem card of the deck, since the deck has many cards that grant combo opportunities. There are at least 4.

Judging by the recent TCG list, I do not think Konami is going to allow EmEM decks to flourish for too long. At least, I hope that is not the case. It would be a nightmare come true.

Sanokal
1st December 2015, 12:23 AM
At this rate, EmEM decks will get a buff every time Konami creates a Level 4 Pendulum monster. It is almost hard to find the problem card of the deck, since the deck has many cards that grant combo opportunities. There are at least 4.

Judging by the recent TCG list, I do not think Konami is going to allow EmEM decks to flourish for too long. At least, I hope that is not the case. It would be a nightmare come true.

Sadly most people are of the opinion that the recent slamming of most decks is to promote this one.

Yuuri
1st December 2015, 12:30 AM
Sadly most people are of the opinion that the recent slamming of most decks is to promote this one.

I see it as a means to promote future decks, yes. But I highly doubt Konami will let the deck live for too long in the TCG.

Quite frankly, I am surprised that they have not already made preemptive hits on the main EmEM cards yet. I guess we were lucky to have Dragon Rulers hit before the release of Dark Matter Dragon, but that is irrelevant now.

Sanokal
1st December 2015, 12:39 AM
If Performages and Pals do end up dominating like they are in the OCG, they'll almost certainly be killed by a banlist, just like Goat format and Tele-DAD.

Yuuri
1st December 2015, 12:42 AM
If Performages and Pals do end up dominating like they are in the OCG, they'll almost certainly be killed by a banlist, just like Goat format and Tele-DAD.

Let us just hope it is sooner than later. If the trend continues, then EmEM will not last long.

Still, Wavering Eyes could also get a preemptive hit simply because of its versatility. Perhaps semi-limited is a fair restriction; and if it continues to be abused, then it should be limited.

SynjoDeonecros
1st December 2015, 01:20 AM
What is the current consensus for the ratio of Wavering Eyes in a deck? I only have it in my Normal Pendulum deck, and right now it only has 2 of them.

Dread Kaiser
1st December 2015, 01:58 AM
What is the current consensus for the ratio of Wavering Eyes in a deck? I only have it in my Normal Pendulum deck, and right now it only has 2 of them.
...
Look at any given decklist, or any of the comments on this thread. the answer should be blindingly obvious

Sanokal
1st December 2015, 02:32 AM
What is the current consensus for the ratio of Wavering Eyes in a deck? I only have it in my Normal Pendulum deck, and right now it only has 2 of them.

Ignoring Dread being Dread, I believe that it's three. Thankfully they're not too hard to get hold of.

Pendulum
1st December 2015, 09:34 AM
What is the current consensus for the ratio of Wavering Eyes in a deck? I only have it in my Normal Pendulum deck, and right now it only has 2 of them.

If your deck is full of Pendulums, 3 is the obvious answer.
If you're using small engines, well, since it's such a good card, 2 is a good number. However, depending on the size of that small engine, 2 can get cloggy.

SynjoDeonecros
1st December 2015, 05:35 PM
All of my monsters are Pendulums, so yeah.

Pendulum
1st December 2015, 05:45 PM
All of my monsters are Pendulums, so yeah.

Max it, then. No reasons to not maximize it.