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Aromaiden
17th November 2015, 10:45 AM
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/7/7e/PantheismoftheMonarchs-SR01-JP-SR.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20150918103919

Spell/Normal
Send 1 "Monarch" Spell/Trap Card from your hand to the Graveyard; draw 2 cards. You can banish this card from your Graveyard; reveal 3 "Monarch" Spell/Trap Cards from your Deck, have your opponent add 1 of them to your hand, also shuffle the rest back into your Deck. You can only use this effect of "Pantheism of the Monarchs" once per turn.
Arguably the best card in Monarchs. A powerful card that assists both in Searching and Drawing; overall increasing both Speed and Consistency, along with having no OPT restriction on its Draw effect. What more could you ask for. For those who have experienced the power of this card, what are your opinions and takes on this beast?

Pendulum
17th November 2015, 10:51 AM
For me, it's a ridiculous card. Having three of these in hand can thin your deck by 7. And they're easily searchable.
Having only one, it's super strong nonetheless. Graveyard setup, 2 draws and a search. You can even banish it from the grave the turn it was sent there.

Jolan
17th November 2015, 02:02 PM
It's literally the card that makes Monarchs playable, alongside Idea. Idea provides tribute fodder and banish recovery whereas Pantheism provides drawpower and consistency. Monarchs have the issue where opening in a hand without any monarchs means you're screwed. Idea is searchable via RotA but monarchs aren't. This card is pmuch the only way for them to have any sort of chance of consistency.

If you limit both this and Idea, Monarch decks are dead.

Momma_Sophie
17th November 2015, 03:01 PM
It honestly gives them consistency in search and draw power both when Monarchs are used alone AND when they are splashed with another engine.

Duelists that are looking to push their decks forward with searchable draw power (or searchable search power) will be happy to give this card a try when monarchs are unleashed; this card has a graveyard effect, which makes it a great card to discard for effects or to send from the deck to the graveyard.

However, my concern is the obvious rarity-bump that is going to occur when this card hits TCG. When that takes place, we probably won't see many good hybrid decks erupt from the Monarchs. That saddens me.

Sanokal
17th November 2015, 05:35 PM
It's part of a structure deck, so in the unlikely event that a rarity bump happens it probably won't have that large of an impact on getting the thing.

Jolan
17th November 2015, 05:46 PM
However, my concern is the obvious rarity-bump that is going to occur when this card hits TCG. When that takes place, we probably won't see many good hybrid decks erupt from the Monarchs. That saddens me.

Pardon me asking but why would a rarity bump matter for a card that's in a Structure Deck?

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 01:15 AM
Without this card Monarchs would be dead. Seriously. First off, it's like a Pot of Greed in better. At first it doesn't make any advantage, but that doesn't even matter. People would kill for Graceful Charity or a RL Angel Baton, this gets rid of cards you don't need at the moment and gives you two whole draws. Deck slimming and it strenghens your hand.
The Grave effect is ridiculous. Immetdiet advantage. You can simply reveal three copies of the card you want or a Grudge and the opponent doesn't have any chance to influence anything anymore. Further strenghens your strategy.
Erebus and Aither dropping this shit is a real problem. Summoning them isn't hard, with Idea and other cards it's pretty simple. Dumping this for the summon just makes using this card even more consistent. You either want it in hand or Grave, with so many cards, it's just ridiculously easy.
And then Idea. Also an eyesore. Recycling this thing every turn to make a fuckton of advantage and strenghen your strategys. It's just ridicilous.

The card definitely needs a hit. And I'm not even sure how good a limit would do since you can still abuse it very well by just having it at all. Kill this card and monarchs drop from the meta.

Pendulum
18th November 2015, 01:27 AM
The card definitely needs a hit. And I'm not even sure how good a limit would do since you can still abuse it very well by just having it at all. Kill this card and monarchs drop from the meta.

I wouldn't kill this card completely because that kill would probably drown Monarchs with it. But at 1 it's still definitely strong. Don't forget The Prime Monarch. You can use it as dicard fodder (a.k.a. Graveyard set-up) or use its field effect to recycle Pantheism from the grave that, as you mentioned, may be recycled from the banished zone with Idea and use it again.
Several of the Monarch cards deserve a hit. And I prefer several cards limited to slow down and weaken the deck, but keeping it playable and reliable at the same time, than just kill one card that would make the deck dead.
And they really deserve a hit, because they can loop (or, at least, pseudo-loop). And loops are always bad.

Jolan
18th November 2015, 02:25 AM
I wouldn't kill this card completely because that kill would probably drown Monarchs with it. But at 1 it's still definitely strong. Don't forget The Prime Monarch. You can use it as dicard fodder (a.k.a. Graveyard set-up) or use its field effect to recycle Pantheism from the grave that, as you mentioned, may be recycled from the banished zone with Idea and use it again.
Several of the Monarch cards deserve a hit. And I prefer several cards limited to slow down and weaken the deck, but keeping it playable and reliable at the same time, than just kill one card that would make the deck dead.
And they really deserve a hit, because they can loop (or, at least, pseudo-loop). And loops are always bad.

The worst thing you can do to your opponent is open with Pantheism and Prime Monarch, drop both to draw 2 (get a Monarch hopefully), banish Pantheism for 3 Tenacity, activate Tenacity to fetch Field, revive Prime by banishing Tenacity, play Field and lower your Monarch's level by 2 so you can get it out with 1 Tribute, dropping Prime back in the graveyard. If you tribute summoned Erebus or Aither, you can just dump more cards in the grave to refuel Prime and setup another Pantheism or the next turn, or w/e you want.

Even if you had Pantheism at 1, this is still very doable. Tenacity is a free searcher for anything so you just have to open with Tenacity + Monarch + Prime (or any other Monarch spell/trap) + Idea/RotA (if no Prime in hand). That's not particularly rare.

And that's why, no matter how much this card is overpowered, killing it and/or Idea would just put Monarchs back to Unplayable. I would much rather figure out what's the extreme issue with Monarch decks and try to hit that instead.
Do people find it impossible to play against the Field spell? Limit it to 1, force recycling via Prime banish into Idea recovery.
Is it something else? Are the monarchs unkillable with March? Hit March instead.
Just...let the deck keep its playability while cutting off the unwanted elements.

Momma_Sophie
18th November 2015, 05:07 PM
Pardon me asking but why would a rarity bump matter for a card that's in a Structure Deck?

I deduce that it won't be; I expected Odd-eyes Fusion to be included in the Structure Deck for Odd-Eyes Pendulum, and it's actually just a Secret Rare in DOCS.
I expected some Synchrons to be released in the Synchron Extreme SD, and they were just Rares/Super Rares in CORE.

The powerful, deck-moving cards seem to not be included in the SDs. And, I have to ask:

"What makes you so sure that TCG will receive it in an SD?"

Jolan
18th November 2015, 08:38 PM
I deduce that it won't be; I expected Odd-eyes Fusion to be included in the Structure Deck for Odd-Eyes Pendulum, and it's actually just a Secret Rare in DOCS.
I expected some Synchrons to be released in the Synchron Extreme SD, and they were just Rares/Super Rares in CORE.

The powerful, deck-moving cards seem to not be included in the SDs. And, I have to ask:

"What makes you so sure that TCG will receive it in an SD?"
I'm not sure how to answer to this outside of ''why''

You had no reason to expect OEF to be in the OEM deck. And it wasn't. We knew OEM was in DMOC and not in the OCG SD. So it would logically be in the TCG DMOC and not in the TCG SD.
You had no reason to expect specific Synchrons in the SE deck. And they weren't. Not sure which ones you refer to, but we had a clear SE decklist for a while, so we knew that would probably be in the TCG version of it. This turned out correct.
The past 2 Structure Decks have received minimal changes, just to remove cards that are banned in TCG or V-JUMP promos. So why would that change for the Monarch deck? If we have to be logical, the one thing that could get changed is the Vassals.
So unlike your unreasonable expectations, mine are completely justified based on previous experience.

Momma_Sophie
19th November 2015, 01:37 PM
I'm not sure how to answer to this outside of ''why''

You had no reason to expect OEF to be in the OEM deck. And it wasn't. We knew OEM was in DMOC and not in the OCG SD. So it would logically be in the TCG DMOC and not in the TCG SD.
You had no reason to expect specific Synchrons in the SE deck. And they weren't. Not sure which ones you refer to, but we had a clear SE decklist for a while, so we knew that would probably be in the TCG version of it. This turned out correct.
The past 2 Structure Decks have received minimal changes, just to remove cards that are banned in TCG or V-JUMP promos. So why would that change for the Monarch deck? If we have to be logical, the one thing that could get changed is the Vassals.
So unlike your unreasonable expectations, mine are completely justified based on previous experience.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I had reason to believe everything I said until you told me that "we" (because you can definitely tell me what I do and don't know) knew that OEF was in DOCS. Well, excuse me, I didn't. All you had to do was explain that there was news released explaining that the Pantheism card would be released in the SD. And even if I didn't see the news, it's not like there's no possibility that TCG Konami wouldn't remove the card from the deck and print it in a Booster to make money. They've reprinted Odd-Eyes Pen Dragon five times, and I didn't expect that. They've released some Deck Collection for Yugi that included Mirror Forces and Magical Hats; I didn't know (and don't believe) that Yugi used those cards in each deck, but hey -- here they are.

So forgive me for hoping; forgive me for being ignorant.
I just thought that based upon my idea regarding how cards are distributed that Konami would somehow screw us out of the card for the sake of money. Get off your high horse, please.

Look here at the Odd-Eyes Deck: http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/products/sd-mpsd.html

At the bottom, there is a note: "Set configuration may change," and there you go. Happened to the Monarch deck, too. They themselves are saying, "We could f**k you all over."

TheRamenNoodle
19th November 2015, 04:52 PM
This card is dumb.

Pendulum
19th November 2015, 08:04 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I had reason to believe everything I said until you told me that "we" (because you can definitely tell me what I do and don't know) knew that OEF was in DOCS. Well, excuse me, I didn't. All you had to do was explain that there was news released explaining that the Pantheism card would be released in the SD. And even if I didn't see the news, it's not like there's no possibility that TCG Konami wouldn't remove the card from the deck and print it in a Booster to make money. They've reprinted Odd-Eyes Pen Dragon five times, and I didn't expect that. They've released some Deck Collection for Yugi that included Mirror Forces and Magical Hats; I didn't know (and don't believe) that Yugi used those cards in each deck, but hey -- here they are.

So forgive me for hoping; forgive me for being ignorant.
I just thought that based upon my idea regarding how cards are distributed that Konami would somehow screw us out of the card for the sake of money. Get off your high horse, please.

Look here at the Odd-Eyes Deck: http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/products/sd-mpsd.html

At the bottom, there is a note: "Set configuration may change," and there you go. Happened to the Monarch deck, too. They themselves are saying, "We could f**k you all over."

Dude, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Jolan was trying to clarify you, he was reasonable and polite. You don't need to act like that to him. You should recognize your mistake and thank him.

And just look at the patterns. Usually and lately, cards released for the first time in OCG SDs, debut in those equivalent TCG decks.

Momma_Sophie
19th November 2015, 09:50 PM
Dude, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Jolan was trying to clarify you, he was reasonable and polite. You don't need to act like that to him. You should recognize your mistake and thank him.

And just look at the patterns. Usually and lately, cards released for the first time in OCG SDs, debut in those equivalent TCG decks.

This is between he and I.
Bye.

Pendulum
19th November 2015, 09:55 PM
This is between he and I.
Bye.

No, since you were being rude, and I'm part of this forum, your attitude towards him left me in a bad mood. I want you to think about others next time. You're not alone with the person you're talking to in this forum. Got that?

Mofiz
19th November 2015, 09:59 PM
This is between he and I.
Bye.

Be rude to anyone and you will get reactions of others. It's called being social.

AccelRainbowDashley
20th November 2015, 01:35 AM
I deduce that it won't be; I expected Odd-eyes Fusion to be included in the Structure Deck for Odd-Eyes Pendulum, and it's actually just a Secret Rare in DOCS.
I expected some Synchrons to be released in the Synchron Extreme SD, and they were just Rares/Super Rares in CORE.

The powerful, deck-moving cards seem to not be included in the SDs. And, I have to ask:

"What makes you so sure that TCG will receive it in an SD?"

Insight is a powerful deck moving card, and it was added to the MoP structure deck. By your own admission, you've been wrong at least twice before. The only time they've changed cards in a structure is when a card is either banned in the TCG, or Shueisha says no.

So Pantheism WILL be in the Monarch SD.

Michelle
22nd November 2015, 05:16 PM
This card offends me greatly, cards with far steeper restrictions do way less than this for decks that don't have the ludicrous stun approach this deck can imput.

When a deck that is designed to prevent spam is entitled to spam, you have a case of terminal hypocrisy.

Pendulum
22nd November 2015, 06:55 PM
This card offends me greatly, cards with far steeper restrictions do way less than this for decks that don't have the ludicrous stun approach this deck can imput.

When a deck that is designed to prevent spam is entitled to spam, you have a case of terminal hypocrisy.

Welcome to the Metagame. Where super strong and bad designed cards just humiliate and mock your opponent because they're using a creative deck full of cool and unexpected combos.
3 of Pantheism is too much.

Momma_Sophie
24th November 2015, 02:41 PM
Insight is a powerful deck moving card, and it was added to the MoP structure deck. By your own admission, you've been wrong at least twice before. The only time they've changed cards in a structure is when a card is either banned in the TCG, or Shueisha says no.

So Pantheism WILL be in the Monarch SD.

So me being wrong before means I will be wrong again? Factor in that I can and do learn from my mistakes and you can probably understand.

I have been told by these Admins once not to deliver my statements as facts. I do not think you deserve that right either.

The moment you can admit to a possibility of being incorrect is the moment you learn.

Now, I am going back to the topic. Bye.

AccelRainbowDashley
24th November 2015, 04:46 PM
So me being wrong before means I will be wrong again? Factor in that I can and do learn from my mistakes and you can probably understand.

I have been told by these Admins once not to deliver my statements as facts. I do not think you deserve that right either.

The moment you can admit to a possibility of being incorrect is the moment you learn.

Now, I am going back to the topic. Bye.

Except you're not learning because you're still claiming the same incorrect information, and your only argument for saying it in the first place is your previous incorrect guesses. To better explain why you were wrong, I'll break it down even further for you.

Odd-Eyes Fusion was never in MoP, nor was it was ever intended to be as it was always in DOCS. So any reasons you had to think it would be in the structure is purely fantasy. When it was revealed that there would be a 10th brand new card included, nobody said "It'll be Odd-Eyes Fusion" because by the time MoP is out, DOCS will have been released and Odd-Eyes Fusion would not longer be a 'new' card. People did, however, correctly predict that the extra card would be Insight.

There were no Synchrons in CORE so I'm not entirely sure what you were thinking there.

My statements are facts so if the admins want to come around and tell me to stop telling the truth, then by all means they can try. The things you've said were obviously wrong, and thus needed to be stopped. You clearly haven't learned from that, though, since you're still doing it. When you have evidence to support your claims, then you can try again.

As for 'the possibility of being incorrect' I tend to say nothing unless I'm absolutely sure, therefore I'm always right. It's a neat little trick called "Thinking before you speak". If what I say is guesswork, then I'll say as much.

If you're going to go around attempting to spread misinformation, you're going to be called out on it. So either get used to being proven wrong, or simply stop being wrong. It's your choice.

Amaryllis
4th December 2015, 12:44 PM
This card gives the consistency, but The Prime Monarch (off-topic, I apologise) is what lets them last far longer than they should. Attack for game? No, 2400 wall. Every turn until they run out of the 10-odd Monarchs Spells/Traps in their Graveyard...which can be recycled with Idea when they're struggling.

But on-topic, yes this card is ridiculous. Two forms of card advantage, can be searched itself, searches for a searcher, can be used multiple times per turn...it's like the Neptabyss of Monarchs.

Pendulum
4th December 2015, 12:52 PM
But on-topic, yes this card is ridiculous. Two forms of card advantage, can be searched itself, searches for a searcher, can be used multiple times per turn...it's like the Neptabyss of Monarchs.

With the exception it doesn't even use Normal Summon, and doesn't leave a 800 ATK monster in attack position on the field.

Amaryllis
4th December 2015, 12:54 PM
With the exception it doesn't even use Normal Summon, and doesn't leave a 800 ATK monster in attack position on the field.

Pshaw, semantics ;)

I'm more concerned with whether or not we get the Field Spell in the Structure Deck. Otherwise it's probably not worth playing in this format.

Pendulum
4th December 2015, 12:57 PM
Pshaw, semantics ;)

I'm more concerned with whether or not we get the Field Spell in the Structure Deck. Otherwise it's probably not worth playing in this format.

They don't necessarily need the field spell.
I remember seeing a lot of Monarch decks toping against EMEm and BA without using the field spell.

Acetraker
4th December 2015, 03:01 PM
Card is amazing, one of the main reason why the New Monarch deck can function. The fact you can cycle this card back due to the monarchs effects in gy allows Monarchs to get the advantage the needed to be relevant.

That and the squires are basically the engine monarchs needed for ages. Vassels fell short

Michelle
4th December 2015, 05:36 PM
The Idea-Eidos approach pretty much stops the deck from being an actual Tribute deck and becomes more and more like the rest of the herd, that being summon X Monster through X effect, or facilitate X summon because Unique and Special. Nowadays it's just a Tribute focused deck because it says it is.

And it's not enough with that when literally all new cards have an extra utility effect that none of the older cards did, so as to add more insult to injury and weed out the deck's lineup to Konami's wants.

In order of indignation: Pantheism > Idea > Eidos > Aither > Original Monarch > Erebus

Hope in the Interstice
4th December 2015, 10:32 PM
The Idea-Eidos approach pretty much stops the deck from being an actual Tribute deck and becomes more and more like the rest of the herd, that being summon X Monster through X effect, or facilitate X summon because Unique and Special. Nowadays it's just a Tribute focused deck because it says it is.

And it's not enough with that when literally all new cards have an extra utility effect that none of the older cards did, so as to add more insult to injury and weed out the deck's lineup to Konami's wants.

In order of indignation: Pantheism > Idea > Eidos > Aither > Original Monarch > Erebus
I have to agree. It's very disheartening that few of the old Monarch cards are being used, especially in terms of the actual Monarchs. I wish the Vassals all had Eidos' effect instead of their own gimmicky Special Summon conditions (or, actually, that we didn't get the Vassals at all).

That said, there was virtually nothing tying the original Monarch deck together. The Monarchs themselves notwithstanding (since we still had Return of the Monarchs instead of Aither), the Spells were all disjointed and the Vassals were often quite gimmicky. The deck was lacking in tribute fodder and a way to maintain advantage.

Michelle
5th December 2015, 12:24 AM
I'm having a problem with the fact that the Meganarchs were trying to come with a concept, one that were aiming to give Attributed decks a boss they could use...

But no, LIGHT/DARK supremacy got the final word again, you can't really use the Meganarchs any more you would use the Aither/Erebus lineup because Buy our structures.


Dominion is a stupid card, but was bearable until they were capable to turbo into it through sheer card design, Thanks a lot, Pantheism.

Butter
17th January 2016, 07:01 PM
I just think that Konami tried so hard over the past two years to make monkarchs good and it just kept failing.
The only real way to make them meta without making them obscenely OP was to turn them into a turbo deck, and Konami ended up taking that approach.

Also the argument that they lost their tribute roots kind of confuses me. Didn't reoccurring tribute fodder that special summon itself already exist in Treeborn frog? The only real difference is that the new tribute engine is more friendly to 2 tribute monsters, something they were promoting with Erebus and Aether. I personally like the squires, they're a great engine that does just enough to keep them both balanced and useful.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yeah also sorry for the necrobump

Michelle
17th January 2016, 08:38 PM
The issue is there's no real good reason to make a deck focused on powerful stun and advantage wars Turbo into itself like this, it just throws out the essentials of the deck and make it into yet another spam deck, except this one is dubiously telling you is a Normal Summon focused deck, the Normal Summons performed by Aither/Eidos are Special Summons with another name, before the Structure, Dominion was given the merit, because the deck still had flaws that impeded them to absolutely choke every single extra deck, now that they're entitled super consistency them having the ability to spam at well the level of an average deck while having the stun capacities of what shoudl've been a dedicated control deck, it just feels wrong, because it's wrong.

All crucial issues with the entire Monarch lineup root directly from the Structure, who skyrockets them to super viability because buy our structure deks.

Do not Necrobump.