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Aromaiden
17th November 2015, 08:22 PM
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/9/92/PerformapalPendulumSorcerer-VP14-JP-ScR.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20141127210202

Performapal Pendulum Sorceror
Earth/Spellcaster/Pendulum/Effect
Pendulum Scale: 2
Level 4
1500 ATK/800 DEF
Pendulum Effect If a "Performapal" monster(s) is Pendulum Summoned to your side of the field: All "Performapal" monsters you control gain 1000 ATK until the end of this turn.
Monster Effect If this card is Special Summoned: You can target up to 2 cards you control; destroy them, and if you do, add "Performapal" monsters with different names from your Deck to your hand, equal to the number of cards destroyed, except "Performapal Pendulum Sorcerer". You can only use this effect of "Performapal Pendulum Sorcerer" once per turn.
The heart and soul of Performapals. I'm pretty sure we're all aware at the effectiveness, significance, and power of this card. What do you think the future holds for this card both in OCG and TCG (once it's released here)?

Jolan
17th November 2015, 08:28 PM
Before: Oh, great, a 1000 atk boost to Pals, I can use this as a pendulum scale!
Now: I summon Pendulum Sorcerer and break my Plushfire and Ariadne to special summon Trick Clown and search a Solemn Notice while also searching Performapal Lizardraw and Monkeyboard so I can draw and search even more.

Dread Kaiser
17th November 2015, 08:29 PM
What he said, kill this stupid thing

Mofiz
17th November 2015, 09:16 PM
So let me explain why this card is bullshit:
Level 4
Pendulum
Destroying cards is not a cost, honestly I would prefer it, if it doesn't destroy at all. Cards today WANT to be destroyed like masochists.
Searching any two cards from your Deck? Really? That is even more bullshit than Stratos
It destroys fucking Pendulums, not only do cards trigger when destroyed, but destroying Pendulums doesn't mean anything at all.
Plushfire and Ariadne.
Searchable by 3 Crobats, 3 Monkeyboards 3 Wavering Eyes.

KILL IT!

Jolan
17th November 2015, 09:22 PM
Honestly Mofiz made a good point in the middle of the explanation.
Destroying your own things is not a cost.
When are we going to get an actual cost, of, say, tributing , or sending to the graveyard without destroying.
Or returning to the extra deck.

Mofiz
17th November 2015, 09:26 PM
Honestly Mofiz made a good point in the middle of the explanation.
Destroying your own things is not a cost.
When are we going to get an actual cost, of, say, tributing , or sending to the graveyard without destroying.
Or returning to the extra deck.

You can't possibly show me a new archtype that has real cost.
Paying LP is everything but a cost. And every Deck has trigger effects when the "cost" is payed. Fusing monsters isn't killing them so some sackdolls can trigger their bullshit effects, sacrificing a monster to summon a Megalo shouldn't activate more effects of the sacrificed. And the opponent doing ANYTHING AT ALL shouldnt summon Frames. I'm yet waiting for a Deck that has ACTUAL cost. That has to do something to activate strong effects.

Pendulum
17th November 2015, 09:30 PM
Cards today WANT to be destroyed like masochists.

*Looks at Igknights*

Why are we discussing this card? Everyone knows this card shouldn't exist. It's a turbo boost to EMEm and should be stopped. It enables both OTK if you already have a nice setup, or it just sets your field up. And the worst thing, it makes it with no effort. No cost. They banned Insight. I thought they were going to ban this too.

Dread Kaiser
17th November 2015, 09:36 PM
You can't possibly show me a new archtype that has real cost.
Paying LP is everything but a cost. And every Deck has trigger effects when the "cost" is payed. Fusing monsters isn't killing them so some sackdolls can trigger their bullshit effects, sacrificing a monster to summon a Megalo shouldn't activate more effects of the sacrificed. And the opponent doing ANYTHING AT ALL shouldnt summon Frames. I'm yet waiting for a Deck that has ACTUAL cost. That has to do something to activate strong effects.

Yang Zing, Jaiotu pitches 2 YZ's in a deck with exactly 1 grave trigger, and one that needed no help going to grave on top of that

Mofiz
17th November 2015, 09:42 PM
Yang Zing, Jaiotu pitches 2 YZ's in a deck with exactly 1 grave trigger, and one that needed no help going to grave on top of that

Fair enough. But summoning any two monsters from your Deck for an equal discard cost is ridiculous anyway.

Dread Kaiser
17th November 2015, 09:47 PM
Fair enough. But summoning any two monsters from your Deck for an equal discard cost is ridiculous anyway.

Nah, thats par for course, further its Archetype locked. not to mention the deck does that anyway by just having something die with Creation up

Mofiz
17th November 2015, 09:51 PM
Nah, thats par for course, further its Archetype locked. not to mention the deck does that anyway by just having something die with Creation up

Actually it's the Decks only consistent way of doing anything. If they don't get Jiaotu, you have to remove their only monster and they are pretty much fucked. It's actually quite interesting how easily they die.

Dread Kaiser
17th November 2015, 10:11 PM
Actually it's the Decks only consistent way of doing anything. If they don't get Jiaotu, you have to remove their only monster and they are pretty much fucked. It's actually quite interesting how easily they die.

I'm well aware. Destruction isn't a thing anymore, its just the new way of saying "Tribute"

OF course there are always those.....Special players that will Nukeroach a field full of YZ

I've actually had some guy do that to my full backrow of Artifacts (and he KNEW I was using them)

Mofiz
17th November 2015, 10:15 PM
I'm well aware. Destruction isn't a thing anymore, its just the new way of saying "Tribute"

OF course there are always those.....Special players that will Nukeroach a field full of YZ

I've actually had some guy do that to my full backrow of Artifacts (and he KNEW I was using them)

Now that is retarded. I usually just banish them, go for Meteorburst or the best way: Scarlight. I love how it bypasses "when" effects. Too bad EVERY clown can't miss the timing...

Jolan
17th November 2015, 10:27 PM
Now that is retarded. I usually just banish them, go for Meteorburst or the best way: Scarlight. I love how it bypasses "when" effects. Too bad EVERY clown can't miss the timing...

I thought YZ were pretty hard to remove and then I learned they all have When effects, so nowadays I just use Scarlight or Blaze Falcon in my RR deck.
You know what sucks about pendulums even more? I can bounce them to hand but that just gives my opponent even more options, since it's effectively a free scale in case I pop his current scales. I can't destroy them, I can't bounce them, no clue what I can even do to them anymore, lol.

Mofiz
17th November 2015, 10:30 PM
I thought YZ were pretty hard to remove and then I learned they all have When effects, so nowadays I just use Scarlight or Blaze Falcon in my RR deck.
You know what sucks about pendulums even more? I can bounce them to hand but that just gives my opponent even more options, since it's effectively a free scale in case I pop his current scales. I can't destroy them, I can't bounce them, no clue what I can even do to them anymore, lol.

Against Pendulums you can only go full power. End it as fast as possbible and make them unable to advantage that much

Dread Kaiser
17th November 2015, 10:30 PM
Now that is retarded. I usually just banish them, go for Meteorburst or the best way: Scarlight. I love how it bypasses "when" effects. Too bad EVERY clown can't miss the timing...

Lol, Missing the Timing?
Thats still a thing?

Mystic TimeKeeper
17th November 2015, 10:33 PM
Lol, Missing the Timing?
Thats still a thing?

That's not a thing anymore, so seldom the designers forget about the distinction between If and When.

Dread Kaiser
17th November 2015, 10:36 PM
Sarcasm went right by your head

for future reference, I never say "Lol" in any serious statement

Mystic TimeKeeper
17th November 2015, 10:41 PM
Sarcasm went right by your head

for future reference, I never say "Lol" in any serious statement

I could say the same, I meant that missing the timing is so 2005 that they just put when because they forgot there's actually a difference, it was meant as a joke too.

Pendulum
17th November 2015, 10:42 PM
Lol, Missing the Timing?
Thats still a thing?


That's not a thing anymore, so seldom the designers forget about the distinction between If and When.

It still is. Check Thousand Blades. It's a when effect.
If you don't make Trick Clown the last in chain, you won't be able to chain Thousand Blades to it, because it will miss the time. However, this is irrelevant because I want those to burn in hell.

EDIT: Yeah.... Forget this, then.

Dread Kaiser
17th November 2015, 10:45 PM
Wait People still use Thousand Blades?

Pendulum
17th November 2015, 10:50 PM
Actually, I don't know. But it was the combo.
But that missing the time thing is obsolete. It's just a small niche. Maybe they use that so certain cards can't be abused very easily.
But they could remove that when vs if thing.

Thanako
17th November 2015, 11:41 PM
Hating on this card over Plushfire is quite hilarious. Ignoring that the judges at YCS San Jose don't know how to play or judge the game (their rulings were the worst I have EVER seen), the busted elements of the deck don't include this card. It is a very great card, but you are kidding yourself if you think it is the core issue of the deck. I think the card is absolutely fantastic.

Pendulum
17th November 2015, 11:47 PM
Hating on this card over Plushfire is quite hilarious. Ignoring that the judges at YCS San Jose don't know how to play or judge the game (their rulings were the worst I have EVER seen), the busted elements of the deck don't include this card. It is a very great card, but you are kidding yourself if you think it is the core issue of the deck. I think the card is absolutely fantastic.

It is absolutely fantastic.
And in tandem with Flame Mascot and Ariadne even more fantastic it is. Too much, in this case. It wrecks a game a bit, in my opinion.

Thanako
17th November 2015, 11:56 PM
It is absolutely fantastic.
And in tandem with Flame Mascot and Ariadne even more fantastic it is. Too much, in this case. It wrecks a game a bit, in my opinion.

That's a fair opinion, but we all know that the Performage cards are the real problem. Nobody can say of its own volition that the problem is the Sorcerer, right? If the Performages were taken care of, Performapals (the deck Konami is actually going to continue to make support for, mind you) would have little problems. Ariadne is another beast entirely, one that requires a lot of cards dedicated to it, and is weak in being searched outside of cards such as Wavering Eyes. Not exactly fair or fun, but far less able to be abused without dedicating a massive section of your deck to use it in the first place in a format where deck space is very tight. (So much so that EMEm decks run 44 cards now)

Dread Kaiser
18th November 2015, 12:09 AM
That's a fair opinion, but we all know that the Performage cards are the real problem. Nobody can say of its own volition that the problem is the Sorcerer, right? If the Performages were taken care of, Performapals (the deck Konami is actually going to continue to make support for, mind you) would have little problems. Ariadne is another beast entirely, one that requires a lot of cards dedicated to it, and is weak in being searched outside of cards such as Wavering Eyes. Not exactly fair or fun, but far less able to be abused without dedicating a massive section of your deck to use it in the first place in a format where deck space is very tight. (So much so that EMEm decks run 44 cards now)

in short, Sorc isn't a Problem, it just happens to work stupidly good with the problems

Pendulum
18th November 2015, 12:16 AM
That's a fair opinion, but we all know that the Performage cards are the real problem. Nobody can say of its own volition that the problem is the Sorcerer, right? If the Performages were taken care of, Performapals (the deck Konami is actually going to continue to make support for, mind you) would have little problems. Ariadne is another beast entirely, one that requires a lot of cards dedicated to it, and is weak in being searched outside of cards such as Wavering Eyes. Not exactly fair or fun, but far less able to be abused without dedicating a massive section of your deck to use it in the first place in a format where deck space is very tight. (So much so that EMEm decks run 44 cards now)

Yes, you're right. But you can't just separate EM from Em. If they work better together, you can't expect people to not use them together.
Performages are the real problem, I agree too.
But look at the Sorcerer alone:
Its Pendulum Effect enables until +5000 damage on the field. Distributed of course. But you can easily disrupt your opponent's field and then Pendulum Summon a bunch of Performapal monsters and give them 1000 atk each;
Its monster effect basically puts two monsters on the Extra Deck ready to summon (whether they were monsters or Scales, and it can even target itself) and then searches two scales to make you able to Pendulum Summon at least those 2 monsters.

So, to conclude, I still think Pendulum Sorcerer is a very good card. Too good.

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 12:22 AM
That's a fair opinion, but we all know that the Performage cards are the real problem. Nobody can say of its own volition that the problem is the Sorcerer, right? If the Performages were taken care of, Performapals (the deck Konami is actually going to continue to make support for, mind you) would have little problems. Ariadne is another beast entirely, one that requires a lot of cards dedicated to it, and is weak in being searched outside of cards such as Wavering Eyes. Not exactly fair or fun, but far less able to be abused without dedicating a massive section of your deck to use it in the first place in a format where deck space is very tight. (So much so that EMEm decks run 44 cards now)

Ariadne only needs 4-5 Counter Traps, not many dedicated to it, and those are VERY good on their own, even Overpowered. There is no problem with running Solemns. Being weak in searched doesn't justify it. Pot of Greed can't be searched either and it's still overpowered. Being able to get searched just makes it even more overpwowered. It's something you like to draw, every MST could turn it into a Summon killer, it is very badly designed and OP for simple reasons.

Also Wizard is just poorly designed and overpowered. It was obvious that it can be abused for bullshit like that. It is in no regard balanced, it's an immediet plus of two since the Deck consists of Pendulums, it can search our an ENTIRE archtype twice, one of them being Monkeyboard which will just search for another one, which makes it a plus of three. And God knows how many cards trigger at destruction. The card itself is just plain overpowered. Working well with Flame Mascot and Ariadne just makes it worse. Even without those two, people would still run three copies becuase a plus of two is a plus of two. It's simply OP

AccelRainbowDashley
18th November 2015, 12:42 AM
in short, Sorc isn't a Problem, it just happens to work stupidly good with the problems

This is the kind of thing I've been saying forever, but nobody ever listens, which is frustrating since I'm generally always right.

Hope in the Interstice
18th November 2015, 01:11 AM
in short, Sorc isn't a Problem, it just happens to work stupidly good with the problems
Back in the day of the olde Performapals, they were so weak and Performapal Pendulum Sorcerer was such a tremendous boost that the deck was entirely too reliant on him. Now he's frontlining no shortage of other horrors for the deck including Skullcrobat Joker, Monkeyboard, and Guiturtle. I think Sorcerer is a problem that also works stupidly good with the other problems so it all compounds.

Jakinus
18th November 2015, 01:17 AM
This is the kind of thing I've been saying forever, but nobody ever listens, which is frustrating since I'm generally always right.

And miss an opportunity to complain about a card/deck/strategy/whatever that you don't like but others might? THAT IS MADNESS!!! WE BOTH KNOW THE COMMUNITY BETTER!!!

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 01:20 AM
Back in the day of the olde Performapals, they were so weak and Performapal Pendulum Sorcerer was such a tremendous boost that the deck was entirely too reliant on him. Now he's frontlining no shortage of other horrors for the deck including Skullcrobat Joker, Monkeyboard, and Guiturtle. I think Sorcerer is a problem that also works stupidly good with the other problems so it all compounds.

I'm very certain if Konami eradicates the Clowns, Yuyas Circus would still dominate the meta only in weaker. Saying only the Clown Part of this Deck is a threat is... fucked up. Skull Crobat into Monkey (and vice versa) into anything. That's way too consistent. If Flame Mascot dies, it will still serve its purpose and they will look for other masochist targets.

Dread Kaiser
18th November 2015, 01:27 AM
Hell while we are on the topic, What Circus Members would you* hit and to what numbers?

*You referring to everyone, not just Mofiz Hope and Dash

Jakinus
18th November 2015, 01:35 AM
*You referring to everyone, not just Mofiz Hope and Dash

Yup, myself included.

Pendulum
18th November 2015, 01:36 AM
Flame Mascot needs to go.
Luster because it plus stupidly. Maybe to one.
Pendulum Sorcerer because of what we discussed here. Maybe to one.
Trick Clown needs its effect to be revisited.
As for Monkeyboard and SkullCrobat... They're very easy to use. Don't know if they deserve a hit.

I'm not saying these all cards here should be hit at the same time. Maybe yes, maybe no. But these, for me, are the worst designed ones.
I'm not sure about the numbers, I'd have to test it carefully.

And your answer to your own question Dread?

Hope in the Interstice
18th November 2015, 01:37 AM
Hell while we are on the topic, What Circus Members would you* hit and to what numbers?

*You referring to everyone, not just Mofiz Hope and Dash
For a start, I'd hit Wavering Eyes and Plushfire to 1. I feel like Wavering Eyes alone makes all other options obsolete and Plushfire to 1 stops it from being abused by Luster Pendulum.

LolsterXD97
18th November 2015, 01:39 AM
Hell while we are on the topic, What Circus Members would you* hit and to what numbers?

*You referring to everyone, not just Mofiz Hope and Dash

Sorcerer to 0.
Joker to 1 (Stratos but less good since only triggers in normal).
Plushfire to 1 (Less abuse with the Slayer).
Guiturtle to 2 (Deck thinning).
Lizardraw to 2 (Deck thinning).
Secondonkey to 0 (This is Stratos and burial for EM).
Airdane to 1 (1 time is enough since Shock is a thing).
Wavering Eyes to 2.
Trick Clown to 0.

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 01:39 AM
Hell while we are on the topic, What Circus Members would you* hit and to what numbers?

*You referring to everyone, not just Mofiz Hope and Dash

Flame Mascot to 0. It has no limiations and can be abused easily
Juggler to 1 or 2.
Tricklown to 0. I don't even care about it anymore but it's just so generic and simple that it has to get a hit
Skullcrobat and/or Monkeyboard need to get cut down. I'm not sure on the numbers but 6 is definitely too much. I would prefer cutting down on the Crobat since it's the one which works as fodder.
Wizard will mostlikely end like Insight at 1.

Wavering Eyes, Luster and Ariadne definitely need a hit too. The rest can stay as it is.

Pendulum
18th November 2015, 01:41 AM
For a start, I'd hit Wavering Eyes and Plushfire to 1. I feel like Wavering Eyes alone makes all other options obsolete and Plushfire to 1 stops it from being abused by Luster Pendulum.

Ah yeah, Wavering Eyes is too generic.

Wavering Eyes to one don't seem to happen though. It would make its last effect useless.

- - - Updated - - -


Juggler to 1 or 2.

Yeah, I forgot that bastard too.
To 1 definitely. Stops OTK, burn and even sets up itself to the graveyard and searches immediately.

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 01:43 AM
Sorcerer to 0, unless something is done with Airdane and Plush (Even if I like Em in general), in that case to 1.
Monkeyboard to 1.
Joker to 1 (Stratos but less good since only triggers in normal).
Plushfire to 1 (Less abuse with the Slayer).
Guiturtle to 2 (Deck thinning).
Lizardraw to 2 (Deck thinning).
Secondonkey to 0 (This is Stratos and burial for EM).
Airdane to 1 (1 time is enough since Shock is a thing).
Wavering Eyes to 1.

Noone even runs more than 1 copy of either Lizadraw or Guiturtle. Flame Mascot at 1 won't make much of a difference, Juggler at threee can still search it.

Pendulum
18th November 2015, 01:43 AM
Airdane to 1 (1 time is enough since Shock is a thing).

Ariadne could stay if most of the Solemns just die.
5 Solemns is just stupid.

LolsterXD97
18th November 2015, 01:45 AM
Noone even runs more than 1 copy of either Lizadraw or Guiturtle. Flame Mascot at 1 won't make much of a difference, Juggler at threee can still search it.

But still Luster wouldn't abuse it now while still searching the other copy.

Dread Kaiser
18th November 2015, 01:45 AM
And your answer to your own question Dread?

Stupid Question, Everything to -1 (banned from Traditional)

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 01:46 AM
But still Luster wouldn't abuse it now while still searching the other copy.

Sorcerer, Eyes and people started running Twin Twister because they can kill their shit too.

LolsterXD97
18th November 2015, 01:50 AM
Sorcerer, Eyes and people started running Twin Twister because they can kill their shit too.

Seriously they use Twin Twister at suicidal style? OCG never leaves me without surprises. In that case Plushfire to 0.

Dread Kaiser
18th November 2015, 01:52 AM
Seriously they use Twin Twister at suicidal style? OCG never leaves me without surprises. In that case Plushfire to 0.

Well yeah
Everything triggers on Death, why would you kill their stuff if you can kill your own?

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 01:52 AM
Seriously they use Twin Twister at suicidal style? OCG never leaves me without surprises. In that case Plushfire to 0.

Why do you think most people dropped HFD for it? If they only use it for backrow hate, HFD would serve that purpose just as well.
Discard cost for Juggler and killing your Scales.

LolsterXD97
18th November 2015, 01:54 AM
Well yeah
Everything triggers on Death, why would you kill their stuff if you can kill your own?

Damm that Konami genius that made Pendulums float (Sorcerer was already ridiculous with being able to add 1 to 2 cards).

LolsterXD97
18th November 2015, 01:58 AM
Why do you think most people dropped HFD for it? If they only use it for backrow hate, HFD would serve that purpose just as well.
Discard cost for Juggler and killing your Scales.

To be honest I don't ever bother at looking decklists since the results are obvious, just checking one time or another if OCG discovers how to explode more old cards. Wonder how the game in OCG would be at this state if HFD were banned and Heavy Storm back.

Hope in the Interstice
18th November 2015, 01:59 AM
Wavering Eyes to one don't seem to happen though. It would make its last effect useless.
Didn't stop Treeborn Frog; made D.3.S Frog useless.

Jakinus
18th November 2015, 02:09 AM
I have a question. Why do you think they should hit the non-pendulum performapals? Sure they can be abused but the same can be said about a lot of cards, even the ones in beloved archetypes by the community.

Also they are a good Rank 4 engine, something generic that a great number of decks can do perfectly without the performages and even for some is their main strategy, so why not give a chance to other decks to do it as well? And then the same people that complain about the mages say that "creativity is dead, Komoney can only make archetypes, Goat Format was tha best blablabla". Some say Rank 4=Cancer or Rank 4 =/= Skill, but that answer don't really count. Give me reasons, people! MAKE ME SEE THE TRUTH!!!

Now back on topic, Plushfire/Ariadne is another story, repeating the Stratos mistake. Limiting should be enough to make them less abusable, at least they don't have 7 searchers and support one of the archetypes with more support in the game. Limit Notice if you really don't want Ariadne to played at all. Clash of Dracorivals is another card worthy of the ban-hammer.

Neither Sorcerer nor Wavering Eyes seem hit-worthy to me if they hit Plushfire/Ariadne.

Jolan
18th November 2015, 02:12 AM
TBH PPal Sorcerer has to take the hit and go to 0. Even if it's at 1, it can still go +2, because, well, it's a card that goes +2. Given how Pendulums float and don't get lost since they hit the extra deck, this card is a potential +3 or +4. Even Instant Noden wasn't that Degenerate.

Wavering Eyes is so strong for Pendulums that nobody takes it just for Pendulum matchups. It'd have to go down to 1 at most, leaving Pendulum deck with a counter for matchups.

Plushfire is searchable by Damage Juggler but if you put it at 1, nobody can Luster Pendulum it. However, that's a temporary solution. Twin Twister, Wavering, PPal Sorcerer and potentially many more other cards pop it for you. It's a Pendulum card that floats. Such a thing shouldn't even exist.

Skullcrobat Joker and Monkeyboard are free +1s but they're just searchers for the deck and require a normal summon. 6 searchers in the PPal engine seems ''okay'', if you just take it at face value. Combo'd with PPal Sorcerer etc, it's a lot, but by itself, it should be an acceptable amount, no?

Ariadne being a floating Pendulum and a searcher for No Fun Allowed cards while also removing their costs and not being OPT? That thing has to go to 0 immediately. It only exists to support a gameplay style that's not enjoyable for either player.

I have no thoughts on Guiturtle. It's a free Upstart for PPals. It thins out the deck. Given how weak they were before PPal sorcerer, and Skullcrobat, and Monkeyboard? I wouldn't take that away from them as well. Let's keep PPals playable, but not in such a horrible way.

AccelRainbowDashley
18th November 2015, 02:13 AM
Hell while we are on the topic, What Circus Members would you* hit and to what numbers?

*You referring to everyone, not just Mofiz Hope and Dash

I don't trust most players to know how to be smart about that sort of thing to be perfectly honest. They all have their bias and insist on completely murdering a deck without any thought beyond "I hate this deck so kill everything!"

As for what I would like, Ariadne is nothing but bad design, so it should be thrown to 1 and be done with it. The PalMage deck is much more manageable without it.

Dread Kaiser
18th November 2015, 03:31 AM
I don't trust most players to know how to be smart about that sort of thing to be perfectly honest. They all have their bias and insist on completely murdering a deck without any thought beyond "I hate this deck so kill everything!"

I know that feeling....


Stratos should be at 3 because Deneb is
ugh....

I have lists. List of Idiots, List of Douches. etc

then there is "The List of people who know WTF they are talking about"
Its disappointingly small in comparison

Hope in the Interstice
18th November 2015, 03:45 AM
ugh....

I have lists. List of Idiots, List of Douches. etc

then there is "The List of people who know WTF they are talking about"
Its disappointingly small in comparison
Sorry about that.

Dread Kaiser
18th November 2015, 03:48 AM
Sorry about that.

Why the hell are you apologizing, your on that tiny List

Hope in the Interstice
18th November 2015, 03:54 AM
Why the hell are you apologizing, your on that tiny List
http://rs221.pbsrc.com/albums/dd93/butterflybreakfast/yay.gif~c200

AccelRainbowDashley
18th November 2015, 04:07 AM
I know that feeling....


ugh....

I have lists. List of Idiots, List of Douches. etc

then there is "The List of people who know WTF they are talking about"
Its disappointingly small in comparison

Are you really surprised, though? At least now you understand why I don't post here very often anymore. I have skype for intelligent discussions should I be in the mood for one.

Thanako
18th November 2015, 05:33 AM
Ultimately, it seems like people are always adamant in their own beliefs, leaving YGO discussion quite heated when the inevitable disagreements happen. I for one am a very understanding person with the game. I see why things are the way they are other than the desire for money. Nekroz format after format has proven that hitting the wrong cards only makes a deck more formidable. You don't casually throw out your limited card as you would with a card at 3.

People aren't killing themselves with Solemn Judgement anymore, since it is at 1 (or banned entirely). Your mentality towards a card could change if it was at a certain place on the banlist. A lot of people seem to claim that any new threat is the worst thing to ever happen to the game, and want Konami to go on a witch hunt. A deck like Nekroz, as the former example, was absolutely massacred by the banlist, because repeated efforts to make the deck viable, yet balanced failed. The deck was too strong.

Entermates/Performapals are not Nekroz. The main character of the ongoing YGO series uses them. Even if you suggested every possible card in the deck was a threat, they are exempt from the same treatment as Nekroz because of the fact that they are the most important deck of the anime. It is possible to hit the cards; just look at the Magicians, but in this case it is different. Konami will hit the Entermages/Performages instead, and not just because they are the cards that break the deck. In terms of power, they are the better cards. At this point, Monkeyboard is a better card than the Sorcerer.

Are a lot of these cards poorly designed? Yes. But so was Blackwing - Vayu the Emblem of Honor. I can't defend poor design choice, but a lot of these cards are not as bad as people make them out to be. If Plushfire and Clash of the Dracorivals were both limited/banned, the deck would be completely reasonable.

TL;DR - There are much better choices that would stop the (anime important) deck from being unreasonably good without killing the deck due salty feelings.

Pendulum
18th November 2015, 09:55 AM
So I had my sleep and thought about the matter again.

Summing up:
Flame Mascot to 0. Summons from the deck. No OPT.
Juggler to 1. Kuriboh + Hanewata + instant any performage search.
Luster to 1 or 2. It enables too much plays. And Clash of Dracorivals exists... Cut this one instead.
Pendulum Sorcerer to 0. You can search 2 cards from the deck every single turn.
Wavering Eyes to 1. A too generic kill your own cards for profit.
Trick Clown to 1. Because he started it.
SkullCrobat to 1. Easy search and R4NK fodder.

As for Ariadne... It could stay, because it helps other stuff too. On the other hand, it's a level 4 floating Pendulum...
The new Solemn needs to go to 1.
Warning to 0. And Judgement too, since we're talking about OCG.

I think (OR hope) this time I didn't forget anything.

Pendulum
18th November 2015, 10:00 AM
Are a lot of these cards poorly designed? Yes. But so was Blackwing - Vayu the Emblem of Honor. I can't defend poor design choice, but a lot of these cards are not as bad as people make them out to be. If Plushfire and Clash of the Dracorivals were both limited/banned, the deck would be completely reasonable.

I don't know about that.
The deck was strong before Flame Mascot. It was ClownBlade spam for days. Two Xyz monsters easily summoned during the first turn.
Now it's just worse.

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 11:14 AM
I don't know about that.
The deck was strong before Flame Mascot. It was ClownBlade spam for days. Two Xyz monsters easily summoned during the first turn.
Now it's just worse.

Plushfire is a plus two but without it the deck will still be broken and dominating. And barely anyone ran clash, it being banned wouldnt change shit

Thanako
18th November 2015, 05:52 PM
I don't know about that.
The deck was strong before Flame Mascot. It was ClownBlade spam for days. Two Xyz monsters easily summoned during the first turn.
Now it's just worse.

Nearly every single Performage card rewards bad play, right? Yes. But there is a competitive level to it. It isn't a completely autopilot deck like Dragon Rulers were. I don't support the absurd wording of the cards, and how live they are most of the time, but nothing can be done about it. Plushfire is the main problem at this point. Most of the other cards are run at 1, anyways. Banning 5 or so cards doesn't seem reasonable for this.



Plushfire is a plus two but without it the deck will still be broken and dominating. And barely anyone ran clash, it being banned wouldnt change shit

All of the currently viable EMEm decks are running 44 cards, including the Draco cards. That's just a thing that exists. It's a quickplay card that nets you insane advantage, and doubles over as a way to get your Plushfires popped if you didn't draw what you needed. Oh, and it doesn't hurt that it can also completely destroy your opponent in the mirror match, negating anything they set in their scales. One card that either nets you advantage on the offense or on the defense. It is quite absurd at this rate.

Mofiz
18th November 2015, 06:05 PM
Nearly every single Performage card rewards bad play, right? Yes. But there is a competitive level to it. It isn't a completely autopilot deck like Dragon Rulers were. I don't support the absurd wording of the cards, and how live they are most of the time, but nothing can be done about it. Plushfire is the main problem at this point. Most of the other cards are run at 1, anyways. Banning 5 or so cards doesn't seem reasonable for this.




All of the currently viable EMEm decks are running 44 cards, including the Draco cards. That's just a thing that exists. It's a quickplay card that nets you insane advantage, and doubles over as a way to get your Plushfires popped if you didn't draw what you needed. Oh, and it doesn't hurt that it can also completely destroy your opponent in the mirror match, negating anything they set in their scales. One card that either nets you advantage on the offense or on the defense. It is quite absurd at this rate.

"ran". Past tense. Saying that the Deck would be fine without it was wrong because they were already Tier 0 for a long time even without it.

theshootingquasarduelist
18th November 2015, 07:48 PM
what i think should be hit would be:
mascot to 0
shockmaster to 0:honestly this card would be abusable by every possible rank 4 deck in the future so i'd say they should hit it just so they could (hopefully)
make rank 4 decks more fair in the future
juggler to 1
sorcerer to 0:because obviously it's very hard to get back destroyed cards ESPECIALLY PENDULUMS RIGHT? RIGHT?
joker to 1
luster pendulum to 1
tricklown to 2/1
wavering eyes to 2
notice to 1/ariadne to 0
prollly missed something but yeah i think that would make the deck alot more fair while not butchering performapals

Drakylon
19th November 2015, 07:05 AM
Plushfire to 0;
Clown to 0 (limiting to 1/2 doesn't even matter considering how easy it is to search, and its inherent recyclability);
Sorcerer to 0 (even worse than Plushfire, and too easy to search)

All Solemns bar Authority and possibly Scolding to 0 (no fun allowed at minimal cost; though this might just be my personal bias against these cards), OR
Notice to 1 and Ariadne to 1/0 (as much as I'd like to experiment with Counter Fairies, allowing generic Counter Traps to be able to be searched was a mistake)

And if EMEm is still too powerful even without its floaters, Sorcerer and Clown:

Wavering to 1
Luster to 2
Clash to 1

Pendulum
19th November 2015, 09:26 AM
All Solemns bar Authority and possibly Scolding to 0 (no fun allowed at minimal cost; though this might just be my personal bias against these cards), OR
Notice to 1 and Ariadne to 1/0 (as much as I'd like to experiment with Counter Fairies, allowing generic Counter Traps to be able to be searched was a mistake)

Poor Solemn Wishes.

Drakylon
20th November 2015, 03:59 AM
Poor Solemn Wishes.

So few people use that card that I forgot it was a card. Let me reiterate: All Counter Trap Solemns bar possibly Scolding to 0.

Pendulum
20th November 2015, 09:24 AM
So few people use that card that I forgot it was a card.

Yeah, I'm one of those. I still use it in my old deck.


Let me reiterate: All Counter Trap Solemns bar possibly Scolding to 0.

I don't like the Solemn Counter Traps. None of them. I hate them. But I'd leave Notice at 1 and Scolding at... It depends, if it starts to be abused, to 1. The others to 0.