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View Full Version : When is going over card limit okay?



SynjoDeonecros
20th November 2015, 05:38 PM
So, I know that most duelists want to go with a hard 40 card limit for their decks, but sometimes I see cards with over 40, sometimes all the way up to 50 cards. I'm currently trying to balance the cards in my Yosenju deck, and I'm torn between siding most of the backrow to keep the deck limit at 40, or putting them in and having it be a 50 card deck.

So, question is, when is it appropriate to go over the hard 40 card limit people put on their decks? Is there a good reason to do so? And if so, what is it?

Dread Kaiser
20th November 2015, 05:41 PM
Its a personal standard, there is no "Right" answer

clairedestroyer!
20th November 2015, 05:53 PM
There is very little reason to go over 40, and the rare instances people do are usually unjustified. Every card you add to your deck reduces the consistency of all your cards. After all, if you need a copy of a card you run 3 of, it's easier to reach it drawing from a pool of 40 than 50. My suggestion is this: spend a lot of time on card valuation. Think about whether the cards you're struggling with are really the absolute best cards to be using. Trying to prepare for every contingency will only make you lose to things you would otherwise beat. It is better to end up with a 40 card deck that does its function the best it can, use the side to be as broad as possible, and just concede that any deck has weaknesses that aren't worth trying to shore up. It'll be tough, but an exercise like this is a chance to improve your card valuation skill, and that is one of the best skills you can have as a deck builder.

Pendulum
20th November 2015, 05:58 PM
There is very little reason to go over 40, and the rare instances people do are usually unjustified. Every card you add to your deck reduces the consistency of all your cards. After all, if you need a copy of a card you run 3 of, it's easier to reach it drawing from a pool of 40 than 50. My suggestion is this: spend a lot of time on card valuation. Think about whether the cards you're struggling with are really the absolute best cards to be using. Trying to prepare for every contingency will only make you lose to things you would otherwise beat. It is better to end up with a 40 card deck that does its function the best it can, use the side to be as broad as possible, and just concede that any deck has weaknesses that aren't worth trying to shore up. It'll be tough, but an exercise like this is a chance to improve your card valuation skill, and that is one of the best skills you can have as a deck builder.

Or just play for fun and don't think that much about it.
I usually play decks between 40-44 (some rare times 46) cards. And I don't have any complaints. It works fine, I have my fun playing the cards I want to play. So, what more could I wish for?
But yeah, what you said is right, if you want to draw a specific card as soon as possible or as easy as possible.

clairedestroyer!
20th November 2015, 06:00 PM
Well yeah but a question like "Is it appropriate to go over the limit?" is (imo) coming from a mindset beyond fun. People who just want to have fun (instead of winning and/or having fun) don't need a reason to do anything or ever need to justify their choices. It's just for fun.

Pendulum
20th November 2015, 06:07 PM
Well yeah but a question like "Is it appropriate to go over the limit?" is (imo) coming from a mindset beyond fun. People who just want to have fun (instead of winning and/or having fun) don't need a reason to do anything or ever need to justify their choices. It's just for fun.

Not necessarily. It's hard to have a 60 card deck and have fun with it. Unless you're playing against another deck at the same level. But I think even 41-44 card decks are strong and consistent. And the cards nowadays are so versatile and there is so much search power out there, you can dare to use a little bit more than 40 and still have a super consisten deck. And since you can afford to lose a bit of consistency (because it may be not that relevant), you can make your deck more able to respond to more situations.
Just look at this week's EMEm deck's lists. They can afford to use more than 40 cards.

Jolan
20th November 2015, 09:35 PM
For some people, reliability is everything. The more cards in your deck at a given time, the less chance of you drawing that one card or cards you need. There's even so-called Filler cards like Upstart who push your actual deck size to 37, with 3 copies. They have no purpose but to thin out your deck, making it so you have a higher chance to draw what you need. Such cards allow you to keep your deck at the bare minimum and nothing else.

On the other hand, if your deck is already extremely reliable at 40, you can always push the limit and add more cards, as long as they don't reduce your overall consistency. A lot of the new cards plus extremely hard and are very flexible draws, so it's never a bad idea to have them in the deck. That's why we're seeing decks increase their deck list up to 44 cards.

Mystic TimeKeeper
21st November 2015, 12:00 PM
As much as I know the more your deck is reliant on monsters the more you can usually afford to run more cards, I usually see mash decks like Quickdraw or EmEM go up to 45 if needed, whereas Deck with few monsters/reliant on combo pieces try to run with as less cards as possible, example HERO or Ritual Beasts, Trap decks tend to stay on 40 too, I can remember GB in this category, so it depends heavily on the deck you are trying to build.

Usually I try to stay on 40 to save on sleeves, especially since my best ones are counted (Konami sleeves are 70 in a pack, 40 for deck, 15 for Extra and 15 for Side).

Blue
2nd December 2015, 06:06 AM
I ran 60 card Zefra before the banlist destroyed them.

Basically every card searched another, and since it was technically a pendulum deck, it could build large boards while waiting for combo peices

Jolan
2nd December 2015, 06:12 AM
I ran 60 card Zefra before the banlist destroyed them.

Basically every card searched another, and since it was technically a pendulum deck, it could build large boards while waiting for combo peices
My friend plays 60 card zefra because of the constant self-searching but started restructuring after he lost Construct and had to find a way to push over large monsters. Mind you, he also runs extreme drawpower with Echo Oscillation and triple Magic Planter.

Mofiz
2nd December 2015, 08:28 AM
Depends on what you use. Seriously. I saw MANY Decks topping in the OCG having more than 40 cards. If you have so many searchers that you will draw into them but REALLY need to have 1 or atleast 2 copies of some cards, going over 40 is nothing bad. Look at most current EmEM Decks, they have mosty more than 40, sometimes even 45. So there is no rule that says "40 is always better" or else people would run tripple Upstart.

Acetraker
4th January 2016, 01:46 AM
40 cards decks = most consistent
42 cards = gadgets
45 cards = some decks can run this if they are fast enough, however most cases you have made ratio mistakes or trying to many things in 1 deck.
50+ is silly.

Dyson Sphere
4th January 2016, 02:57 AM
i think its ok to go up to 3 over if you need to put in those 3 extra cards for more combos and making a better deck

Icematoro
4th January 2016, 07:30 AM
There's not a true answer to this. It was said as early as the second post, it depends.

My honest answer is: Whenever it feels right.
Always aim for a 40, If you feel 40 won't make the cut, or that your deck can handle it, go ahead! Add to your heart's content. My personal limit is 42, but you'll rarely ever see me play over 40.

Boring stuff ahead:

I remember running Zombie Seraphs for a while, always thinking "Damn, I have so much draw power, I have hardly any room for the stuff I like to play with" and surely, my build was so draw thirsty it almost felt like I had no deck at all, I'd usually get all my combo pieces by turn 1 or 3 (Usually helped by the Stacking effect of the now banned Lavalval Chain, R.I.P. Sweet Prince), effective, but playing the deck felt like a chore (Which I guess initially was, as I was using it to Tag-Team with a friend, no double-decking mind you, for a tournament). A perfect 40, consistant enough, but it didn't FEEL right.

Then there was this time when one of my friends told me: "Ice, make a 60 cards deck, now"
Building a deck to be over 40 is pretty painful for me, going up to 60 was hard, but boy, was it fun tagging with 60-card-decks (Me and my partner with 60 each, against randoms, usually with less than 45 cards in deck, and again, no double-decking from our side).

It was rather sad to actually win with 60 cards decks (Shard of greed being the closest thing we had for draw power, and only my partner ran those) but when I got over that, it was the most fun I had in a while! I never got myself to play that deck alone tho.

citrus
10th January 2016, 09:36 PM
Let's assume that:
1. You can only run a limited number of copies of each card (only 3 in this game), and
2. You want to see a particular card/combination of cards as frequently as possible.

Statistically speaking, the correct deck size is as small as possible, because the probability of assumption 2 only improves as your deck becomes smaller. There are always other things to consider, however, such as not decking out, having enough cards in your deck for effects to work (Gadgets), and so on. There have been many instances where highly successful decks exceeded 40 cards, such as the 60-card Shaddoll/BA deck from last April.

The key to going above 40 successfully, I believe, lies in this:
1. Playing the 41st, 42nd... card hugely raises the ceiling of your to such a degree that you can't afford not to play it, or
2. Your deck has such tremendous consistency that you can compensate for--or even improve--your consistency by playing more cards.

Successful decks that play 41, 42 cards typically fall in the first category. The 60-card Shaddoll/BA deck falls in the second category. One of its greatest strengths was that it can resolve The Beginning of the End consistently, and that was only possible because the deck was large enough to accommodate the necessary number of monsters to make that happen.

In general, I think there are very few practical situations where playing beyond 40 is a good choice. Something like Yosenju already has a tight deck core, and it already needs to see specific combinations of cards in its opening hands to get the ball rolling, so there's no reason to play more than 40 cards in the deck. Something bigger like Magicians, which needs a lot of main deck space, could potentially play 41 cards to accommodate 1 X-Saber Palumuro, because the Naturia Beast plays that it enables are very powerful and easily accessible. (Even in that case, there's usually something that can go to make room, so that the deck stays at 40.)

Wonderllama
16th January 2016, 04:10 PM
Performapals are so consistent that they could afford to run 41 or 42 cards and never brick. Other decks don't have that luxury!