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King
17th January 2016, 08:05 PM
I have been thinking about this mechanic about a couple times and i came to the conclusion that this mechanic is awesome and dumb at the same time (keep in mind that i am not criticizing it and i abuse this mechanic a lot), its awesome because you can summon a more powerful monster for "free" but its dumb because you Xyz summon a monster just to be transformed into a Overlay Unit to a Righer Rank Xyz Monster and dont fell like a legitimate Xyz Summon, i want to see the other Summons explore this kind of thing like "You can also Synchro Summon/Fusion Summon this card by using a ( Insert Monster Stats here) as Synchro/Fusion Material, this mechanic is decent enought hat gives many decks a good power-up you know, imagine how it was improved a Rank 5 Spam Machine Deck with Cyber Dragon Infinity and with Number 77 and 84 released they gave rank 8 spam a nice tech, you can Put a Number 15 Gimmick Puppet Giant Grinder to have a "free" Number 84 and futherly a Number 77, its like a 4000 ATK monster using only 2 Level 8 Monsters, we have Number 62 but it does not seem to be best option to Use 2 Level 8 monsters, i think we dont see this mechanic being explored like i said before because this would make a Monster type absolute meaningless, why have a Synchro / Fusion Monster that cannot be properly summoned i think Konami already though about this. But a the end of the day i find this funny and awesome i cannot complain.

Pendulum
17th January 2016, 08:13 PM
Technically, it's an Xyz Evolution.
The most sordid thing in my opinion is Tributing Last Strix to Summon Ultimate Falcon and go into No.77.

LolsterXD97
17th January 2016, 08:47 PM
Technically, it's an Xyz Evolution.
The most sordid thing in my opinion is Tributing Last Strix to Summon Ultimate Falcon and go into No.77.

Jesus, and I thought Last Strix + Skip Force + Satellite Cannon Falcon was bonkers, this is literally a 1 card 4k ATK Xyz.

Drakylon
17th January 2016, 09:53 PM
I saw someone abusing Xyz Change Tactics with an entire Extra Deck of Utopias. The card advantage from that was absolutely ridiculous. 1 R4NK into 6+ draws in a single turn.

King
17th January 2016, 10:05 PM
Technically, it's an Xyz Evolution.
The most sordid thing in my opinion is Tributing Last Strix to Summon Ultimate Falcon and go into No.77.

that is why i decided to be an avid RR player

Pendulum
17th January 2016, 10:06 PM
I saw someone abusing Xyz Change Tactics with an entire Extra Deck of Utopias. The card advantage from that was absolutely ridiculous. 1 R4NK into 6+ draws in a single turn.

Yeah, that's the other side of the coin that abuses Xyz Evolution mechanic. But to make the most, it needs the aid of RUMs, I think.

Yuuri
17th January 2016, 11:24 PM
I personally believe we have too few of these cards, but what do I know? Quite a few of these cards are either abusable and/or downright overpowered.

Xyz has nothing on Fusion anyway. /shot

R3QU13M
17th January 2016, 11:29 PM
Yes this mechanic is dumb but more to be said a guilty pleasure. Due to being able to summon a monster with relative ease without any assistance from a RUM card or needing a tuner or etc.

King
17th January 2016, 11:31 PM
I personally believe we have too few of these cards, but what do I know? Quite a few of these cards are either abusable and/or downright overpowered.

Xyz has nothing on Fusion anyway. /shot

I dont think so, at least The Fusion Summon animation is far better than Xyz Summon animation seeing the monster going to a odd swirl is nice

Yuuri
17th January 2016, 11:34 PM
I dont think so, at least The Fusion Summon animation is far better than Xyz Summon animation seeing the monster going to a odd swirl is nice

I wasn't exactly referring to the animation, but yes, the animation is quite nice.

I do believe Shun should incorporate the Xyz Evolution mechanic. It would save him some deck space.

Pendulum
17th January 2016, 11:55 PM
I wasn't exactly referring to the animation, but yes, the animation is quite nice.

I do believe Shun should incorporate the Xyz Evolution mechanic. It would save him some deck space.

Nah. He's the RUM guy.

King
18th January 2016, 12:06 AM
Nah. He's the RUM guy.

he evolves then learns to Rank-Up Naturally

Yuuri
18th January 2016, 12:08 AM
Nah. He's the RUM guy.

Too much RUM.

Plus, I think it would be a great idea to have some Xyz Evolution cards. It would give the deck more options and less flooding.

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 12:55 AM
Too much RUM.

Plus, I think it would be a great idea to have some Xyz Evolution cards. It would give the deck more options and less flooding.

What about a continuous spell that allowed him to be able to stack raids that are 1 rank higher on top of an xyz

Yuuri
18th January 2016, 01:02 AM
What about a continuous spell that allowed him to be able to stack raids that are 1 rank higher on top of an xyz

Too inconvenient. It would be MST/TT fodder roughly all the time. That, and I generally dislike decks/archetypes that rely on Continuous Spell/Traps.

King
18th January 2016, 01:35 AM
What about a continuous spell that allowed him to be able to stack raids that are 1 rank higher on top of an xyz

wath about single quick-play RUM that he can use in any circustnce

Yuuri
18th January 2016, 01:40 AM
wath about single quick-play RUM that he can use in any circustnce

It would have to be versatile, but not broken. Generally, cards that are overly versatile warrant a ban. So, that would not do.

King
18th January 2016, 01:47 AM
It would have to be versatile, but not broken. Generally, cards that are overly versatile warrant a ban. So, that would not do.

just a rank-up no tricks and no special circustences

Yuuri
18th January 2016, 01:52 AM
just a rank-up no tricks and no special circustences

Define this please.

Most of Shun's RUM cards have an extra ability. If this is not what you're alluding to, then yes, please explain.

Hope in the Interstice
18th January 2016, 01:54 AM
Define this please.

Most of Shun's RUM cards have an extra ability. If this is not what you're alluding to, then yes, please explain.
I think he's talking about a Rank-Up-Magic that's completely generic. Otherwise, we already have Raid Force.

Yuuri
18th January 2016, 01:59 AM
I think he's talking about a Rank-Up-Magic that's completely generic. Otherwise, we already have Raid Force.

Yes, Raid Force already covers the generic part.

Like I said, it be best for Shun to take up the Xyz Evolution concept. He has one-too-many RUM cards. That, and the concept needs to be redeemed thanks to CDI tarnishing it.

King
18th January 2016, 02:05 AM
Yes, Raid Force already covers the generic part.

Like I said, it be best for Shun to take up the Xyz Evolution concept. He has one-too-many RUM cards. That, and the concept needs to be redeemed thanks to CDI tarnishing it.

If RRs had more interactions with RUMs they could cover a great weakness

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 02:06 AM
just a rank-up no tricks and no special circustences

something like that would be horrible, people would be able to rank up any rank 4 into nova then into infinity

Hope in the Interstice
18th January 2016, 02:09 AM
something like that would be horrible, people would be able to rank up any rank 4 into nova then into infinity
Infinity was a monumental mistake of a card...

Yuuri
18th January 2016, 02:12 AM
If RRs had more interactions with RUMs they could cover a great weakness

What RRs need is a card that allow them to search for RUM cards. Then they could truly function as a RUM-based deck.


Infinity was a monumental mistake of a card...

Thank you for agreeing.

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 02:13 AM
Infinity was a monumental mistake of a card...

yeah a generic rank up is pretty much a ptolemaeus without the 3 mat discard, you can even use castel then use castel for infinity

King
18th January 2016, 02:15 AM
something like that would be horrible, people would be able to rank up any rank 4 into nova then into infinity

Not to generic you can only Rank-Up into raid raptors, we already have soul shave force to Summon Infinity

Hope in the Interstice
18th January 2016, 02:18 AM
What RRs need is a card that allow them to search for RUM cards. Then they could truly function as a RUM-based deck.
How about we just have a generic card that searches for Rank-Up-Magics?


Thank you for agreeing.
Even when I first saw the card, I thought "Hang on... I know Cyber Dragons need a boost but isn't this a bit much?"

Yuuri
18th January 2016, 02:19 AM
Not to generic you can only Rank-Up into raid raptors, we already have soul shave force to Summon Infinity

We already have what you are describing. It comes in the form of Raid Force (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Rank-Up-Magic_Raid_Force).


How about we just have a generic card that searches for Rank-Up-Magics?

That would work quite nicely, actually. For safety precautions, it could restrict Special Summons for the turn, excluding Xyz Summons.



Even when I first saw the card, I thought "Hang on... I know Cyber Dragons need a boost but isn't this a bit much?"

Yes, Konami went overboard on that card. Especially when it is not difficult to bring out in the first place.

King
18th January 2016, 02:22 AM
We already have what you are describing. It comes in the form of Raid Force (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Rank-Up-Magic_Raid_Force).



That would work quite nicely, actually. For safety precautions, it could restrict Special Summons for the turn, excluding Xyz Summons.




Yes, Konami went overboard on that card. Especially when it is not difficult to bring out in the first place.

if Raid Force was at least Quick Play

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 02:24 AM
How about we just have a generic card that searches for Rank-Up-Magics?




yes give other rank-up decks like some of mine a boost too

Volteccer
18th January 2016, 04:44 AM
As someone playing a Zexal Weapon deck from time to time (because sometimes, you just want to use an untargetable indestructible 5k beater), I too would like to be able to search out my rank-ups.

Hope in the Interstice
18th January 2016, 04:51 AM
As someone playing a Zexal Weapon deck from time to time (because sometimes, you just want to use an untargetable indestructible 5k beater), I too would like to be able to search out my rank-ups.
I honestly think Rank-Up is the least of your problems.

Ziz
18th January 2016, 07:55 AM
How about we just have a generic card that searches for Rank-Up-Magics?
Do you really want this card (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Number_S0:_Hope_ZEXAL) to be easy to summon?

iNfiniTe Se7eNz
18th January 2016, 08:15 AM
Do you really want this card (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Number_S0:_Hope_ZEXAL) to be easy to summon?

Could always slap "... but you cannot Special Summon for the rest of the turn, except by the effect of a "Rank-Up-Magic" Spell Card." onto it to prevent that.

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 09:04 AM
Could always slap "... but you cannot Special Summon for the rest of the turn, except by the effect of a "Rank-Up-Magic" Spell Card." onto it to prevent that.

Wouldn't really work. Next turn S0 would be on the field for game. S0 is a big problem.
RUMs can't be easily searchable.

Hope in the Interstice
18th January 2016, 09:34 AM
Wouldn't really work.
You kidding? That sort of speed reduction would hinder any boss.

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 10:07 AM
You kidding? That sort of speed reduction would hinder any boss.

I'm serious. You just need to hang until the next turn and then go for game.
RUMs just can't be searched directly, even with those restrictions. They just have a lot of power. Argent Chaos search through Marshalling Field is probably the best way to search.
But hey, looking at the latest releases, who knows?

Hope in the Interstice
18th January 2016, 10:33 AM
I'm serious. You just need to hang until the next turn and then go for game.
If you even have the materials to last that long. Besides which, ZEXAL doesn't really do much against an established field.

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 10:39 AM
If you even have the materials to last that long. Besides which, ZEXAL doesn't really do much against an established field.

True, true. But searching a RUM does much more than that. You will definitely have materials for a 2-material R4NK monster (because we are talking about competitive scenarios), so you Summon Utopia and go for No.99, in case your opponent has an established field.
Searching a RUM is, overall, dangerous. Giving competitive decks the chance to use them viably is a route I'd like to avoid.

Jolan
18th January 2016, 01:09 PM
Raidraptors need a way to search for RUMs, not a way to use the XYZ built-in Rank-Up mechanic.

And said mechanic shouldnt exist unless you make monsters that have no way to use materials attached to em.

Like, what was his name? The Gaia XYZ. It ranks up from a rank 5/6 and just has Piercing and high atk stats.

Regardless, I dream of the day where I can special summon 2 level 4 monsters, then XYZ into rank 4 and proceed to overlay Rank 5,6,7,8,9,10,11 and 12 over that card.

XYZ SOLITAIRE!

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 01:16 PM
Raidraptors need a way to search for RUMs, not a way to use the XYZ built-in Rank-Up mechanic.
They should have a way to search RUMs without being generic fodder for S0 and the likes.
The searcher could have a limitation like You can only summon RR for the rest of the turn (or Xyz RR, to be more flexible), but then it had to have some condition to not let the RUM stay in the hand. Something like At the End Phase, if you did not use a RUM card this turn, discard one RUM or something.


Regardless, I dream of the day where I can special summon 2 level 4 monsters, then XYZ into rank 4 and proceed to overlay Rank 5,6,7,8,9,10,11 and 12 over that card.

XYZ SOLITAIRE!

Geez, man, I thought you were a reasonable guy! That would be indeed cool, though.
And please XYZ is different than Xyz. Yes, I care for it.

King
18th January 2016, 01:27 PM
Regardless, I dream of the day where I can special summon 2 level 4 monsters, then XYZ into rank 4 and proceed to overlay Rank 5,6,7,8,9,10,11 and 12 over that card.

XYZ SOLITAIRE!

this can happen if we had at least 3 DARK Xyz Monster Monsters whose Ranks 8, 9 and 10 that has a built-in Xyz Evolution, this can happen, so lets pray for this to happen

Volteccer
18th January 2016, 03:12 PM
I honestly think Rank-Up is the least of your problems.

Not as much, actually. I've hybridized it with some Performapal stuff, and I can get out Utopia fairly reliably while still having the ZWs for it. It does brick occasionally, but that's why I'm never taking it to a tournament.

King
18th January 2016, 03:21 PM
Not as much, actually. I've hybridized it with some Performapal stuff, and I can get out Utopia fairly reliably while still having the ZWs for it. It does brick occasionally, but that's why I'm never taking it to a tournament.

Mix everything wih Peformapal and we are good to go anyway Performapal Pendulum Engine is cosistent As hell

iNfiniTe Se7eNz
18th January 2016, 07:05 PM
True, true. But searching a RUM does much more than that. You will definitely have materials for a 2-material R4NK monster (because we are talking about competitive scenarios), so you Summon Utopia and go for No.99, in case your opponent has an established field.
Searching a RUM is, overall, dangerous. Giving competitive decks the chance to use them viably is a route I'd like to avoid.

Okay, fine, then, how about the card in question activates the RUM from the deck, but retains the restriction of not being able to special summon for the rest of the turn?

Jolan
18th January 2016, 07:13 PM
They should have a way to search RUMs without being generic fodder for S0 and the likes.
The searcher could have a limitation like You can only summon RR for the rest of the turn (or Xyz RR, to be more flexible), but then it had to have some condition to not let the RUM stay in the hand. Something like At the End Phase, if you did not use a RUM card this turn, discard one RUM or something.



Geez, man, I thought you were a reasonable guy! That would be indeed cool, though.
And please XYZ is different than Xyz. Yes, I care for it.

I would probably lock it directly to RR-only special summoning, but not force you to discard. Players would just set it face down...Although that might be a good thing, since your opponent gets a chance to pop your RUM and prevent you from going into S0 next turn.

AND Hey! I am reasonable! It's just that a man should be allowed for an impossible dream, yknow!

Michelle
18th January 2016, 07:25 PM
Xyz Evolution, as was coined the term is one like many, a variation of an established mechanic, much like Contact Fusions, or Accel Synchro, however what sets it apart is that it was conceived at a very early age for the mechanic, so one could suggest the idea that it's an intrinsecal part of the mechanic as a whole, whether that is true or not is subject to debate but the truth is, it is here now, and it's 600 gallons of late to backtrack.

The concept is simple because it's natural to the entire Xyz Mechanic; That is, it bypasses all formalities and go to the guns, much like with the Synchro/Xyz paradigm in which one requires some slightly enablers while the other does not, Xyz Evolution is on a different level to other enhancements of other mechanics, because much like Xyz can be used in any deck that bothers using their intended level, Xyz Evolution hardly demand anything to hit the field. Given that they were such a premature concept it'd suggest they've had more than enough time to be analized, and one could measure just when is something just enough.

It started out with 3 examples, one would be Utopia Ray, which in a vacuum, had enormous potential to be quite the OTK machine, but again, I do not think anyone in real life could fabricate the required pinch situation you see in literally almost every single YGO series episode, OR, be machinatedly stupid enough to let your opponent survive with that few of a LP count... Still, it worked as a stepping stone, to what would next become the most balanced non-removal R4nk in the game, but that's another story I'd wager you've heard like 5000 times, non-stop, during the damage step.

Next we have Gaia Charger, it was about as basic and non-explosive as a vanilla could get, since it only had Piercing going for it. But the fact is that Gaia is not an issue in itself, but as it can be summoned on top of monsters with powerful effects such as N61 Volcasaurus, who had a restriction once activated, but add Gaia to the Mix and suddenly, there never was any restriction to begin with, we'd only go on to realize ignoring, or completely invalidating costs and drawbacks would grow to be the pumping blood of the game. The only real problem with Gaia Charger is how it doesn't make any sense flavor-wise, but do Xyz even make sense?

And last makes Constellar Ptolemy M7, a monster that makes for Boss monster to a Deck I liked to call Xyz's Synchrons, that definition however is falling down more and more in flavor as Xyz is straying further from creating multi-rank focused themes. Ptolemy was a very powerful card that many players go for as their core Rank 6 Monster, it had an effect simple in execution, yet simple enough to warrant versatile usage, it could be removal, retrieval, it could move cards on play to places more convenient to the player(I still can't seem to find a good example of returning an opponent's card in their grave to their hand, but if you have a good one, do let me know). Ptolemy suffered from being Gaia bait as its restriction was well measured enough, since Constellar, their house deck had to wait a turn to use its effect, which is understandable enough, what isn't understandable is why that concept was repeated only once. People didn't really Gaia over Ptolemy that much, since you were aiming to use Ptolemy's effect, then again, people didn't Ptolemy on top Pleiades that much since the latter was more aggresively functional than the latter could ever hope to be, but this never made Ptolemy a bad card, it just wanted you to Xyz Summon it properly, and unfortunately their fate was to solve everything with 2 Level 4 Monsters, this too was bound to happen to their child theme as well, if not even worse.

There weren't much more Xyz Evolution monsters since Konami was experimenting with other alternatives (it still takes them until 3 years from now to realize RUM is a gimmic concept that would've only worked naturally well in a pre 5D's era), Xyz evolution saw many shapes, and despite proving that Xyz Materials were not really the issue, Konami insisted on making Rank-upped Monsters evolve into other monsters by paying Materials, and they didn't have the bother of making them functional enough to compensate for it. The insistence on using Rank Up as the means towards the end, in which only RR work because they actually bother to make it their norm, while other RUM related decks require sacktastic ammounts of luck to even play their boss monsters. The Seventh ones at least took a level in Sentai by making the sacky aspect of the card worth all the sharks jumped by being the most dramatically designed card since ever, and that card is still every bit as powerful as it has ever been, so why isn't it played anymore, if at all?

Probably they should've focused on the idea that Xyz as a whole, is meant to be a very simple and straight-to-the-point mechanic, and the only real complexity that there needs to be with it are high ranking, but that's just a personal view to it.

Infinity was a monumental mistake of a card...
I still to this day blame Infinity for Ptolemaios being a thing, and wonder whether people would still call the latter gamebreaking even if it didn't have that evident of a trigger.

How about we just have a generic card that searches for Rank-Up-Magics?

Do you really want this card (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Number_S0:_Hope_ZEXAL) to be easy to summon?
Protip: you don't.


Even when I first saw the card, I thought "Hang on... I know Cyber Dragons need a boost but isn't this a bit much?"

I would've really prefered something that makes Network all the more reliable, we need more assembly-like cards like that one.

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 07:32 PM
Okay, fine, then, how about the card in question activates the RUM from the deck, but retains the restriction of not being able to special summon for the rest of the turn?

Better. It could banish it to the deck to activate its effects. Or even send to the Grave.

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 07:37 PM
Players would just set it face down...Although that might be a good thing, since your opponent gets a chance to pop your RUM and prevent you from going into S0 next turn.
Exactly. What other reasons would that be? Though I didn't even considered the susceptibility of the card being MST-like bait. I just thought of it to make players either use it or set it so it won't be on the hand.


AND Hey! I am reasonable! It's just that a man should be allowed for an impossible dream, yknow!
Yeah... I know, man, I know. For instance, I like Qli. They are ridiculously strong and should never be existed the way they are. But I like them, so I want Scout to be out of the banlist. It has to stay there, I know, I know. But since I play the deck for fun (and not floodgate.dek), I would like to use at least two. So, I know what you mean.

- - - Updated - - -


I still to this day blame Infinity for Ptolemaios being a thing, and wonder whether people would still call the latter gamebreaking even if it didn't have that evident of a trigger.

You're forgetting Pleiades during opponent's turn, miss (miss?).

Michelle
18th January 2016, 07:46 PM
You're forgetting Pleiades during opponent's turn, miss (miss?).

I still say, for a 3 material change for that kind of one-shot effect is rather worth it, and if it comes as very powerful and flexible is probably only because the enablers are so goddamn stupid. Azzathot was a funny idea that turned into a nightmare quite as well.


I can recognize Ptolemaios being very questionable, but Infinity will always be the more terribly designed card for me.

King
18th January 2016, 07:58 PM
I still to this day blame Infinity for Ptolemaios being a thing, and wonder whether people would still call the latter gamebreaking even if it didn't have that evident of a trigger

It seems like everybody wants to crucify Cyber Dragon Infinity


while other RUM related decks require sacktastic ammounts of luck to even play their boss monsters
Using RUMs its like Polymerization you Need a monster and Spell to Summon, with that being said to make a RUM worthy in a Deck it should be something like Fluffals or Shadolls who have a strong interaction with their Spell Cards to Summon their Bossed

Michelle
18th January 2016, 08:15 PM
I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it, were not for the fact it's absorb effect compliments the negate effect grossly. so given just a little breath makes it instantly live.

It was designed with terrible in mind.

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 08:17 PM
Do you really want this card (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Number_S0:_Hope_ZEXAL) to be easy to summon?

lets see i dont want that to be easy but i want my rank 9 deck and gimmick puppets to access their rank ups easier a lot more then i care about S0

Michelle
18th January 2016, 08:23 PM
lets see i dont want that to be easy but i want my rank 9 deck and gimmick puppets to access their rank ups easier a lot more then i care about S0

Then rev up those Marshalls, cuz you're surely hungry for one...

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 08:30 PM
Then rev up those Marshalls, cuz you're surely hungry for one...

lol run 3 marshalling in both

Jolan
18th January 2016, 09:17 PM
I like the suggestion about RR sending a RUM from the deck to the graveyard to activate its effect. I am not sure how PSCT would read in such a card but it would be nice to see. It would make Raid Force a lot more playable, Skip Force practically mandatory too.

I still think the name of this should be XYZ Solitaire because you're literally stacking cards on top of each other, with higher and higher ranks, almost as if I'm playing Solitaire.

CDI is a very poorly made card because all it needed was the negation effect, to make sure Cyber Dragons can achieve their OTK. The 101 effect seems practically unnecessary given how Cyber Dragons can literally win via battle damage, so they dont care about a giant boss monster with 3500 attack. I've won games where I made a 8400 atk Chimeratech Rampage and just rammed it into a Frightfur Sabre Tiger, the latter not dying in battle via its effect, allowing me to deal the LP damage with no problem. CDI would have been perfectly FINE with just the negation effect. That way Ptolmao into Nova Infinity would have, like, 2 uses at most. It wouldn't be on the same level as BASE 4 MATERIAL HOPE S0. That's comparing 2 turns of single negation to 8+ total turns of ''cant play the game''.

While I do like the ''float Ptolmao into Pleiades on their turn, bounce 1'' strat, I very much do not like the entirety of Ptolmao's effects either. Like CDI, it fills an amazing niche - Satellarknights actually get a 2-material XYZ that they can make on turn 1, which entirely makes the whole game more fun than ''Deneb Set 4 pass'', since it allows more strategical plays. You can even XYZ ''evolve'' it into Constellar Diamond in MP2, fetching yourself a fantastic counter to a lot of older decks. Heck, it even lets you attach Satellarknights from the extra deck to itself as material! Achieving 3 materials on it is relatively doable in a Satellarknight deck! Very decent, imo. But for some reason, it has a completely useless and unnecessary effect of detaching 7 materials to force your opponent to skip a turn...?? Why is that even there? Who would even use it? It makes no sense whatsoever. Skipping turns isn't even a Satellarknight in-theme thing.

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 09:27 PM
CDI is a very poorly made card because all it needed was the negation effect, to make sure Cyber Dragons can achieve their OTK. The 101 effect seems practically unnecessary given how Cyber Dragons can literally win via battle damage, so they dont care about a giant boss monster with 3500 attack. I've won games where I made a 8400 atk Chimeratech Rampage and just rammed it into a Frightfur Sabre Tiger, the latter not dying in battle via its effect, allowing me to deal the LP damage with no problem. CDI would have been perfectly FINE with just the negation effect. That way Ptolmao into Nova Infinity would have, like, 2 uses at most. It wouldn't be on the same level as BASE 4 MATERIAL HOPE S0. That's comparing 2 turns of single negation to 8+ total turns of ''cant play the game''.
CDI fits zero into the CyDra theme. It only needed... nothing even the negation is too much for a so easy to summon monster. Though it would be way more balanced if it only had the negation effect, yeah. I could tolerate that. And Ptol didn't need to exist, also.


While I do like the ''float Ptolmao into Pleiades on their turn, bounce 1'' strat, I very much do not like the entirety of Ptolmao's effects either. Like CDI, it fills an amazing niche - Satellarknights actually get a 2-material XYZ that they can make on turn 1, which entirely makes the whole game more fun than ''Deneb Set 4 pass'', since it allows more strategical plays. You can even XYZ ''evolve'' it into Constellar Diamond in MP2, fetching yourself a fantastic counter to a lot of older decks. Heck, it even lets you attach Satellarknights from the extra deck to itself as material! Achieving 3 materials on it is relatively doable in a Satellarknight deck! Very decent, imo. But for some reason, it has a completely useless and unnecessary effect of detaching 7 materials to force your opponent to skip a turn...?? Why is that even there? Who would even use it? It makes no sense whatsoever. Skipping turns isn't even a Satellarknight in-theme thing.
Ptol should have had limitations. Like requiring tellars has materials and... It would still be really annoying, but at least it would only work with a tellar engine, which would remove consistency to bigger Decks that started abusing this guy.
It's effect to pass a turn is nothing. It would need a lot of luck to go through with it. Doesn't quite fit the tellar's style, yeah, but it's not displaced either, in my opinion.

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 09:47 PM
what CDI shouldve had instead, honor ark eff, plus being able to detatch 2 to summon a machine fusion

Michelle
18th January 2016, 09:53 PM
what CDI shouldve had instead, honor ark eff, plus being able to detatch 2 to summon a machine fusion

So, another way to spit into Nova's face even further, yea ok.


It should've been its own Rank 5 monster, Cydra specific, maybe that way at least you could've adressed it as a problem more easily, while making it outclassing Nova feel all the more natural.

King
18th January 2016, 10:24 PM
So, another way to spit into Nova's face even further, yea ok.

.

In order to solve the "Cancer" that Infinity brought to this land Konami could easily make it unable to be summoned vid Chaos Xyz Evolution and make its materials 4 Level 5 LIGHT Machine-Type Monster. But who am i to Complain about Cyber Dragon Infinity

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 10:25 PM
In order to solve the "Cancer" that Infinity brought to this land Konami could easily make it unable to be summoned vid Chaos Xyz Evolution and make its materials 4 Level 5 LIGHT Machine-Type Monster. But who am i to Complain about Cyber Dragon Infinity

I can't believe I'm seeing you complaining about such card.
I thought you loved this kind of cards.

King
18th January 2016, 10:29 PM
I can't believe I'm seeing you complaining about such card.
I thought you loved this kind of cards.


But who am i to Complain about Cyber Dragon Infinity

Like i said before

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 10:30 PM
Like i said before

You shattered my growing hopes, now...
Just messing with ya.

King
18th January 2016, 10:32 PM
You shattered my growing hopes, now...
Just messing with ya.

Trying to Trick me ? try hader next time

Michelle
18th January 2016, 10:34 PM
The only way to solve Infinity being a thing is not letting Infinity be a thing in the first place.

King
18th January 2016, 10:35 PM
The only way to solve Infinity being a thing is not letting Infinity be a thing in the first place.

Sending it to the Forbidden Realm ?

Michelle
18th January 2016, 10:44 PM
Sending it to the Forbidden Realm ?

To Rough Draft format? Yes!

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 10:55 PM
Trying to Trick me ? try hader next time

Nah, not tricking.

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 10:55 PM
Sending it to the Forbidden Realm ?

you mean giving sangan some company

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 10:56 PM
The only way to solve Infinity being a thing is not letting Infinity be a thing in the first place.

I wouldn't mind seeing it rotten in the depths of the Banlist, actually. Though it would be a pity, another card that could avoid such tragic destiny if it wasn't so bad designed.

Michelle
18th January 2016, 10:58 PM
I wouldn't pity Infinity, at least Ptole had potential of cool deeds that didn't completely invalidated people, Infinity was bound to only hate.

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 11:03 PM
I wouldn't pity Infinity, at least Ptole had potential of cool deeds that didn't completely invalidated people, Infinity was bound to only hate.

True to that, Michelle, true to that.
I just don't like to see the banlist full of cool arts. It's a shame they make this ridiculous strong monsters just to sell during a couple of formats, and then, puf, onto the Banlist!

King
18th January 2016, 11:04 PM
Don't worry no matter which way you Bring CDI, who will get the blame is always the ways used to bring it

Dyson Sphere
18th January 2016, 11:08 PM
hmmm a better way to make infinity more balanced wouldve been to get rid of the nova rank up and make a rank-up magic for cyber dragons called rank-up magic cybernetic force or something

Pendulum
18th January 2016, 11:09 PM
Don't worry no matter which way you Bring CDI, who will get the blame is always the ways used to bring it

That's because Ptol is also ridiculous.
But that really depends on the cards in question. Like Norden or Instant Fusion? Or TER or Instant Fusion? Well, we're starting to get a pattern here, so, in this case, the answer is kinda obvious.

- - - Updated - - -


hmmm a better way to make infinity more balanced wouldve been to get rid of the nova rank up and make a rank-up magic for cyber dragons called rank-up magic cybernetic force or something

That means: "You need to make it a new errata." That's not going to happen.

kuchiki
20th January 2016, 05:43 AM
Aside from using the xyz generic summon method to xyz summon by using that xyz monster as material without having rank-up magic spell is generally easier since you do not have to take x amount of deck space filling up slots for rank-up magic cards. Cards like stellarknight constellar diamond, utopia variants, Beatrice the eternal lady, galaxy-eyes dark matter, etc.

On the other hand, summoning the higher rank monsters by using x level and x number of monsters is much more difficult without rank-up spells, xyz universe, and other notable supporting cards to help bring out the monster. Try bringing out super quantum mecha overlord great magnas by using 3 level 12 monsters would be pretty difficult.

I think most people here agree cards like infinity and ptolemaeus are bad though I think ptolemaeus is worse since the card can xyz into any rank 5 (not cxyz) monster which made it a go to card in any rank 4 engine (mainly ptolemaeus to infinity).

Michelle
20th January 2016, 06:04 PM
Ptole was only terribly designed in further practice, while it was designed with abuse in mind, it only came to ridiculous imput in decks that already vomit out R4nk fodder, which are equally troublesome for the game overall.

Infinity was deliberately designed to be awful design, it's contradicting to its theme, has the most bland, over the top design ever put into a single card and was only created to be abused.

You would very hard pressed to convince me is not the example of all that is wrong with the Xyz Mechanic.