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Thread: Thunder King Rai-Oh vs Special Summons

  1. #1
    Registered User KingKaash's Avatar
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    Answered: Thunder King Rai-Oh vs Special Summons



    Neither player can add cards from their Deck to their hand except by drawing them. During either player's turn, when your opponent would Special Summon exactly 1 monster: You can send this face-up card to the Graveyard; negate the Special Summon, and if you do, destroy it.

    Simple question that I want to make sure on. I'm reading which Special Summons Thunder King can negate on the Wiki and I see it mention that it can negate a Synchro summon of an individual Synchro monster. But can Thunder King negate an individual Fusion summon or individual Xyz summon? And if it does negate the Xyz summon of an individual Xyz monster, do the materials that were about to be used for the Xyz summon go to the graveyard?

    I've read that Thunder King cannot negate Pendulum summons.
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  2. "There's 2 types of special summons, that players have dubbed Inherent and non-inherent.

    Inherent summons happen through the card's own summoning condition, or via a game mechanic. Examples include BLS-Envoy SSing itself by banishing a Light and a Dark monster, Kaijus SSing themselves by Tributing a monster, every Synchro Summon, every XYZ summon. After Arc-V, that also includes Pendulum summoning. Contact fusions are also summons that happen via own condition.

    Non-inherent summons happen because of card effects. Examples include a Yang Zing maindeck monster being destroyed and sent to the graveyard; playing Polymerization to summon a Fusion, Dinomist Rush summoning a Dinomist from the deck, basically every Spell/Trap/Monster effect that summon a monster that is not themselves (but can be themselves if the effect targets and the monster is a valid target) when activated.

    Cards that would negate a Summon only negate inherent summons. Solemn Strike negates only inherents. Solemn Warning, however, negates non-inherents as well.

    In this case, Hope is pretty much correct in every point. When a monster's summon is negated, it goes to the graveyard (unless prompted otherwise) without ever having hit the field, and is not considered to have been properly summoned (whether that matters or not)"


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    Registered User Hope in the Interstice's Avatar
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    Thunder King cannot negate a Fusion Summon since, as it uses a card effect to Special Summon a monster, it is not an inherent Special Summon. The same goes for Ritual Summons, Wonder Xyz, Urgent Tuning, and others.

    Special Summons that occur without card effects can be negated by Rai-Oh, even a Pendulum Summon (however, Rai-Oh can only negate the Special Summon of ONE monster so, to use Rai-Oh, your opponent can only Pendulum Summon one monster). Rai-Oh can also negate Contact Fusions, such as Neos Fusions, XYZ Fusions, and Dinoster Power.

    As for the negated Xyz Materials, yes they go to the Graveyard.

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    Registered User Jolan's Avatar
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    There's 2 types of special summons, that players have dubbed Inherent and non-inherent.

    Inherent summons happen through the card's own summoning condition, or via a game mechanic. Examples include BLS-Envoy SSing itself by banishing a Light and a Dark monster, Kaijus SSing themselves by Tributing a monster, every Synchro Summon, every XYZ summon. After Arc-V, that also includes Pendulum summoning. Contact fusions are also summons that happen via own condition.

    Non-inherent summons happen because of card effects. Examples include a Yang Zing maindeck monster being destroyed and sent to the graveyard; playing Polymerization to summon a Fusion, Dinomist Rush summoning a Dinomist from the deck, basically every Spell/Trap/Monster effect that summon a monster that is not themselves (but can be themselves if the effect targets and the monster is a valid target) when activated.

    Cards that would negate a Summon only negate inherent summons. Solemn Strike negates only inherents. Solemn Warning, however, negates non-inherents as well.

    In this case, Hope is pretty much correct in every point. When a monster's summon is negated, it goes to the graveyard (unless prompted otherwise) without ever having hit the field, and is not considered to have been properly summoned (whether that matters or not)
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    Registered User KingKaash's Avatar
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    Thank you both for your helpful explanations. I got answers to things I didn't even consider
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    Registered User Baroque's Avatar
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    I would like to grousingly chime in on a couple of semi-important points. That I loathe the term 'inherent' is not one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolan View Post
    Non-inherent summons happen because of card effects. Examples include a Yang Zing maindeck monster being destroyed and sent to the graveyard; playing Polymerization to summon a Fusion, Dinomist Rush summoning a Dinomist from the deck, basically every Spell/Trap/Monster effect that summon a monster that is not themselves (but can be themselves if the effect targets and the monster is a valid target) when activated.
    While mostly accurate, it feels like this could lead to some misconceptions (let us examine, for example, Abyssmegalo or Garunix -- they do summon themselves but do not target a blessed thing to do so).
    It'd be more appropriate to state that an effect which is activated to perform a summon is the smoking gun for the (gag) 'non-inherent summon' -- conditions like those of Cyber Dragon, Kaiju, Ulti-Ritual Beasts, VWXYZ, etc. do not activate, by comparison.

    Cards that would negate a Summon only negate inherent summons. Solemn Strike negates only inherents. Solemn Warning, however, negates non-inherents as well.
    This is an innocent little bit of text, but I'd like to note that Warning technically doesn't negate the 'non-inherent summon' -- it negates the card or effect that activated. There's no summon negation going on when, say, Polymerization is Magic Jammer'd. It's a less-important thing than the above, but still something I wanted to edu-nitpick about.
    Last edited by Baroque; 16th February 2016 at 04:36 AM.
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    Registered User Jolan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baroque View Post
    I would like to grousingly chime in on a couple of semi-important points. That I loathe the term 'inherent' is not one of them.
    Same but I have no idea what else could be used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baroque View Post
    While mostly accurate, it feels like this could lead to some misconceptions (let us examine, for example, Abyssmegalo or Garunix -- they do summon themselves but do not target a blessed thing to do so).
    Well technically Garunix is a SS via card effect, which is non-inherent, doesn't target but does summon itself....So yeah, you're right in a way. It's the only valid target despite not targeting at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baroque View Post
    It'd be more appropriate to state that an effect which is activated to perform a summon is the smoking gun for the (gag) 'non-inherent summon' -- conditions like those of Cyber Dragon, Kaiju, Ulti-Ritual Beasts, VWXYZ, etc. do not activate, by comparison.
    Would it be easier to say if the summon creates a chain -> non-inherent, and if the summon doesn't create a chain -> inherent? Trying to simplify it as much as possible, but it's always tough to summarize without missing out on edge cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baroque View Post
    This is an innocent little bit of text, but I'd like to note that Warning technically doesn't negate the 'non-inherent summon' -- it negates the card or effect that activated. There's no summon negation going on when, say, Polymerization is Magic Jammer'd. It's a less-important thing than the above, but still something I wanted to edu-nitpick about.
    Yes, and I probably have to add that in such a case, only the card that was negated/destroyed would hit the graveyard, and not the monster to be summoned. (ex Solemn Warning on Shadoll Fusion doesn't mean Construct /and/ Shadoll Fusion hit the grave, but only the spell card.)
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