User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17

Thread: So I played vs Liberating Ariadne + Ultimate Providence + Solemn Notice...

  1. #11
    Registered User Jolan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    507
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Acetraker View Post
    An this comes down to the fact you have to not be so confused by the draw fallacy.

    Mistake exists to prevent searches as do other cards. Vacuum logic is bad times and causes too many arguments in the community. Also I'm not sure if ariadne and providence even work together. It's says send type card to negate same type. The pend just make is so you don't have to discard. My internal logic would suggest that if you discard nothing if possible you would negate nothing.

    I could be wrong.
    Again, even with Mistake, isn't it a case of ''solid counter that is unsearchable'' vs ''card combo that is searchable and also negates said counter'' ? Whoever gets his first, wins?

    But yes, I also thought you had to discard the appropriate type but it seems that on YGOPro, with Ariadne saying that ''you dont have to discard'', it's ruled as paying a cost and ariadne removing said cost.
    I'm a bear.

  2. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolan View Post
    Again, even with Mistake, isn't it a case of ''solid counter that is unsearchable'' vs ''card combo that is searchable and also negates said counter'' ? Whoever gets his first, wins?

    But yes, I also thought you had to discard the appropriate type but it seems that on YGOPro, with Ariadne saying that ''you dont have to discard'', it's ruled as paying a cost and ariadne removing said cost.
    You can't trust ygo pro or dev pro to get effects right. looks at igknights + key beetle + many others. Also again you are thinking in vacuum the game is not a vacuum, actual real world games disprove the "it's searchable" as valid points. Basically anything is possible but thinking possible outcomes have merit is a fallacy. As experience is fact, possible outcomes are imaginary an biased due to being unmeasurable.

    I'm not saying these cards aren't powerful they are. However they are not really that great in the context of a real world format. As a result of many factors.

    Some people seem to dislike cards that function in statistical ways even though those cards aren't actually op in the context of the game itself.

  3. #13
    Registered User Baroque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    766
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Acetraker View Post
    My internal logic would suggest that if you discard nothing if possible you would negate nothing.

    I could be wrong.
    You would be, actually; there's nothing in the card that would imply discarding nothing would make you negate nothing, and I'll break it down to show why.

    "When a Spell/Trap Card, or monster effect, is activated:" This qualifies you to activate it in these instances. You could see it as determining what you're going to be paying, if only because you're paying a cost of whatever type of card you're using Providence to go after.
    "Discard the same type of card (Monster, Spell, or Trap);" This is the cost you pay to activate the card itself. Ariadne allows you to ignore this.
    "negate the activation, and if you do, destroy that card." This is the effect, which has no indicator as to whether the specific card discarded has any bearing on the end result -- you're merely paying the cost to negate the activation of the card or effect, no more and no less.

    The usual way to cause what you're thinking of would be to bundle the discard into the effect (a dangerous proposition in its own right) and slap an ', and if you do,' between the discard and the activation negation (the 'destroy that card' would possibly be attached with perhaps an 'also').
    Last edited by Baroque; 4th January 2016 at 06:14 AM.
    #222937 for invisitext in the Org's dark. Try it out!

  4. #14
    Registered User Pendulum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,589
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't want to be involved in a serious discussion here. I'm just gonna say every card has counters. That doesn't necessarily make them less powerful.
    The Solemn Traps are some of the most disrupting cards there due to their versatility. Also, they are Spell Speed 3. Ariadne just made them searchable and costless. And Providence is Solemn-like. It negates every type of effect. Sure, you need to have the right type on your hand. But nowadays, the majority of the decks have a lot of monsters. That means your deck will probably have too. That means you will be able, at least, to easily counter your opponent's monster effects, just like they will be able to counter yours.

    Sure, you can build your deck to counter those specific cards, but how will your deck counter other cards? And how will you have space to work on your strategy. Besides, your opponent may also have counters to your counters.
    Three providence + three Notice + Warning + three Ariadne + three Wavering will be a hard deck to deal with.
    And you can't just destroy Ariadne, because it will get its effects. So what will be the solution? Ignister? Castel? Those are good solutions, until you find your opponent has a set Solemn/Providence.

  5. #15
    Registered User MystikX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    51
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolan View Post
    Is there any hope for the TCG after BOSH, because even tho Providence and Notice are both Secret Rares, I fully expect someone to just make Ariadne.deck and run 3 of each???
    Nope. This is why I'm taking a break from this game to focus on Vanguard and Pokémon TCG, and also the reason I opted to Judge the Boston Regionals next weekend instead of participate, since it's the first Regionals that BOSH will be legal.

    I just refuse to play in a triple Notice, Ptloemaus/Infinity format.

  6. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Baroque View Post
    You would be, actually; there's nothing in the card that would imply discarding nothing would make you negate nothing, and I'll break it down to show why.

    "When a Spell/Trap Card, or monster effect, is activated:" This qualifies you to activate it in these instances. You could see it as determining what you're going to be paying, if only because you're paying a cost of whatever type of card you're using Providence to go after.
    "Discard the same type of card (Monster, Spell, or Trap);" This is the cost you pay to activate the card itself. Ariadne allows you to ignore this.
    "negate the activation, and if you do, destroy that card." This is the effect, which has no indicator as to whether the specific card discarded has any bearing on the end result -- you're merely paying the cost to negate the activation of the card or effect, no more and no less.

    The usual way to cause what you're thinking of would be to bundle the discard into the effect (a dangerous proposition in its own right) and slap an ', and if you do,' between the discard and the activation negation (the 'destroy that card' would possibly be attached with perhaps an 'also').
    Thank you for explaining it to me, as it makes me a better player.

    The problem with this card I think is not it effect. It is a really powerful card. The issue with the card is the deck it is played in. Current meta namely ocg stopped using them. The main reason why they did this is a game mechanic reason. current formats require decks to further their game state. Negating cards NEVER furthers your game state by the act of negating. It just slows your opponents. What CAN lead to your game state being furthered in the right deck. An sometimes you can brute force through someone's negations. What has been the key reason why that play has dropped from being play. It becomes an issue when your opponent can have more negations than your ability to deal with them. However current formats support increasing what your deck does best more extensively rather than limiting what your opponent does.

    Wondering if the possible eventuality of Draco/Ariadne will be a thing to come as it might answer my point. it being the right deck for these cards. However time will tell.
    Last edited by Acetraker; 7th January 2016 at 09:58 PM.

  7. #17
    Registered User clairedestroyer!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    170
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The issue is there's way more impactful stuff you can do with Dracos than hitting Ariadne, getting a trap and then passing.

    Why would I play traps that can be played through and don't replace themselves when I could just game you instead?

    The perfect field of Ariadne+multiple backrow where you also make a meaningful play yourself so there's actual pressure to win the game instead of just dismantling that board and slow rolling into your face are pretty low. Ariadne is relatively unsearchable for a Pendulum. Draco is somewhat, but remember that Face-Off is still a 50% chance of just putting Vector on the field and wasting a Draco by dumping it in the extra. Additionally, every trap you have is a card that's taking combo pieces away from you. Ariadne isn't threatening unless you can also Pendulum Summon to make your own advancement on the game and traps don't help with that at all.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •